Martin O'Neill...

The funny thing is Trap Wales record in the group was the same amount of goals conceded as us and only one more goal scored. That is with one of the top 5 players in the world in their team. Hardly setting the world on fire are they. Fairly turgid to watch themselves, yet Coleman is lauded and MON is a dinosaur.

Double Maxim wrote: The O'Shea wrote: Most of the evidence would be to the contrary on that one. We really don't give ourselves any credit, we aren't a top tier nation but we're in there with the best of the rest. People seem to be under the impression that every other nation is filled with great players, they aren't, most are in a similar position to us, an abundance of useful players and a few good ones.     Exactly MON has the worst group of Irish players in terms of quality in my lifetime but has on many occasions got the best out of them we finished second in a group where we were the fourth seeded team.

That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Our lack of quality now is exaggerated as is our supposed abundance of it in the past. People think because we had guys playing for Liverpool/Arsenal etc. 20 years ago that that means we had far better players, when the reality is that Liverpool/Arsenal etc. just had a far smaller pool of talent to choose from 20 years ago... Jason McAteer, Phil Babb etc. would get nowhere near a top-4 side in this era, they'd be playing for mid-table sides like Brady, McClean, Long and so on are today. We're certainly not as good as we were in the late 80's and early 90's, but the difference in quality is overstated. We have a reasonably good squad of players by international standards and that is why we qualified for the last 2 Euros, and made 2 out of the last 3 World Cup playoffs. If our players were as bad as some suggest, it wouldn't matter how good a manager we had had, we simply wouldn't have achieved those things.

The O'Shea wrote: That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Our lack of quality now is exaggerated as is our supposed abundance of it in the past. People think because we had guys playing for Liverpool/Arsenal etc. 20 years ago that that means we had far better players, when the reality is that Liverpool/Arsenal etc. just had a far smaller pool of talent to choose from 20 years ago... Jason McAteer, Phil Babb etc. would get nowhere near a top-4 side in this era, they'd be playing for mid-table sides like Brady, McClean, Long and so on are today. We're certainly not as good as we were in the late 80's and early 90's, but the difference in quality is overstated. We have a reasonably good squad of players by international standards and that is why we qualified for the last 2 Euros, and made 2 out of the last 3 World Cup playoffs. If our players were as bad as some suggest, it wouldn't matter how good a manager we had had, we simply wouldn't have achieved those things.

TOS - Is Phil Babb really any worse than Klavan, Gomez etc, or Mc Ateer not fit to lace  Wijnaldums boots.  Taking the Liverpool squad of 20 years ago as a yard stick, would you consider a squad containing the likes of Carragher, Owen, Fowler, Mc Mannaman, Karl Heinz Reidle, Collymore, Jamie Redknapp etc not to be the equal of any thing Klopp has at his disposal.

 I think the tendency is to over exaggerate how good the top teams in England are at the moment. Our great players of the past would still stand up to scrutiny if playing today. The likes of Keane x 2, Irwin, Mc Grath, Whlean, Aldridge, Houghton, Staunton,Duff, etc etc would always be at the top end of that league. 

To my minds eye we currently have a group of lower end plodders who are big on commitment buy low on star quality. The majority play yard dog roles for premier league teams who's aim is to avoid the bottom 6, while those outside the top league are involved in a war of attrition to get into the top six of the Championship. Just because some of our players rub shoulders with Aguero, Sanchez, Pogba etc on a weekly basis, doesn't me they are skilled operators at the top level. European teams of similar stature to us have the luxury of calling on Bale,  Alabba, Eriksen , lewandowski, Modric, etc we just don't have creative players at that level. My feeling is that O'Neill's motivation and low risk strategy is keeping our heads above water.

The reality is that 25 years ago the English game was exclusively composed of players from Britain and Ireland, that necessitates that there was far, far less competition for places and less choice for clubs. The internationalisation of the EPL and even the Championship has raised the standard immeasurably and made it far harder to break into the top sides. The only Irish players since 1990 I would be certain of getting into a title-contenders side today are Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, and maybe Denis Irwin. You could make a case for a few others, but its far from a certainty.

The O'Shea wrote: The reality is that 25 years ago the English game was exclusively composed of players from Britain and Ireland, that necessitates that there was far, far less competition for places and less choice for clubs. The internationalisation of the EPL and even the Championship has raised the standard immeasurably and made it far harder to break into the top sides. The only Irish players since 1990 I would be certain of getting into a title-contenders side today are Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, and maybe Denis Irwin. You could make a case for a few others, but its far from a certainty.

Who gives a flying fck about what could of happened, christ on a fckin suzuki, would you ever fck off and enjoy the actual reality of the win, we go forward to the play offs and what will be will be 

Cabra Hoop wrote: M O'Neill has been lauded for Monday nights performance as a tactical masterclass. To play devils advocate on the game...

Cabra Hoop wrote: DUBLIN DOC wrote: Who gives a flying fck about what could of happened, christ on a fckin suzuki, would you ever fck off and enjoy the actual reality of the win, we go forward to the play offs and what will be will be  A Honda 50, get it right......

Wrong...... again, but what else would you expect when you talk through your forum name