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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 12:43am
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Anyone watch the TV3 buildup to the Liverpool match?Neil Lennon was on it. Paraphrasing a little here, 
Tommy Martin : "So Neil, you played under Martin O'Neill, the perceived wisdom is that he does almost nothing on the training ground and tells players very little tactically.Is that true?
Neil Lennon : "Yes, but good players should know their own role in the team without being told."

Neil kind of answered his own question there, we do have some good players, but mostly pretty average ones, and tis clear enough from watching Ireland play that some of them don't really know what to do in certain situations. 

Lets go back to Burnley again, the highest placed team any member of the Irish squad is involved in. Dyche is known for being well organised, spotting opposition weaknesses and instructing his players accordingly. They went after Liverpool earlier in the season targeting corners, as Liverpool struggle with defending them, mind you, everyone knows this, it isn't managerial genius. Dyche took the credit for it, but what the cute fcuker didn't say, or claim any credit for, was how he managed to shut down Liverpool's dangerous attack. In this team, 3 of our players, including 2 of our seemingly more talented ones, not that you would think it from their Ireland performances in the last 2 years, play regularly and seem to be prospering. 

It could be as simple as we have a bunch of players that are not all that good and would benefit from some instruction, but this isn't the case under MON, or seemingly isn't the case. Quite simply, if the players were all that good, half of them wouldn't be in the championship. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JAVIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 12:57am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Anyone watch the TV3 buildup to the Liverpool match?Neil Lennon was on it. Paraphrasing a little here, 
Tommy Martin : "So Neil, you played under Martin O'Neill, the perceived wisdom is that he does almost nothing on the training ground and tells players very little tactically.Is that true?
Neil Lennon : "Yes, but good players should know their own role in the team without being told."

Neil kind of answered his own question there, we do have some good players, but mostly pretty average ones, and tis clear enough from watching Ireland play that some of them don't really know what to do in certain situations. 

Lets go back to Burnley again, the highest placed team any member of the Irish squad is involved in. Dyche is known for being well organised, spotting opposition weaknesses and instructing his players accordingly. They went after Liverpool earlier in the season targeting corners, as Liverpool struggle with defending them, mind you, everyone knows this, it isn't managerial genius. Dyche took the credit for it, but what the cute fcuker didn't say, or claim any credit for, was how he managed to shut down Liverpool's dangerous attack. In this team, 3 of our players, including 2 of our seemingly more talented ones, not that you would think it from their Ireland performances in the last 2 years, play regularly and seem to be prospering. 

It could be as simple as we have a bunch of players that are not all that good and would benefit from some instruction, but this isn't the case under MON, or seemingly isn't the case. Quite simply, if the players were all that good, half of them wouldn't be in the championship. 







in that i dont agree ...i think  some players  in the championship could be playing in premier league no problem....  

GREG  CUNNINGHAM   a leftback expert
EUNAN O'KANE   played before and in his best time
CONNOR HOURIHANE  same thing and will play next season
MATT DOHERTY AND  CYRUS CHRISTIE both showed can play at higher level
the keepers  WESTWOOD AND RANDOLPH are better than most in the PREMIER LEAGUE
DAVID MEYLER  showed he is a good premier league player
WES HOOLAHAN  is an enygma but he is soo  goood
AIDEN MCGEADY  the same as hoolahan
ODOWDA COULD PLAY in the near future if given the chance...
AND ANTHTONY STOKES AND CILLIAN SHERIDAN  deserved a chance

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 1:04am
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Can't see people having much patience for anybody who has a similar style to O'Neill. (E.g Allardyce or McCarthy). We have had almost 10 years of playing a similar style.

Euro 2020 will be one of the easiest tournaments to qualify for, probably ever. That allows us to look at someone based on play-style as well as results.

McDermott would be a massive success were he to get it, in my opinion. 




I wouldn't necessarily say McCarthy is the same as MON, he has played limited football (with Ipswich for example), but he's also played more constructively with other sides. He'd be more of a "halfway house" appointment in my opinion, which is perhaps as ambitious as we can expect the FAI's recruitment policy to be...
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 2:07am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I can't really see the FAI going for a leftfield appointment but I would have no issue if they went for Jupp Heynckes who won't be at Munich next season.
That would be another blow for Cyrus Christie, if Tony Yeboah is to be believed (and I do, btw).

For Yeboah straight out accused Heynckes of being racist/xenophobic when they were at Eintracht Frankfurt - basically there was no room for Yeboah, Jay Jay Okocha and Maurizio Gordino (Italian parents) after JH arrived, as he states in this interview with BBC World Service Radio:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvvr3

(Shay Given also interviewed for the above programme)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 7:47am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Anyone watch the TV3 buildup to the Liverpool match?Neil Lennon was on it. Paraphrasing a little here, 
Tommy Martin : "So Neil, you played under Martin O'Neill, the perceived wisdom is that he does almost nothing on the training ground and tells players very little tactically.Is that true?
Neil Lennon : "Yes, but good players should know their own role in the team without being told."

Neil kind of answered his own question there, we do have some good players, but mostly pretty average ones, and tis clear enough from watching Ireland play that some of them don't really know what to do in certain situations. 

Lets go back to Burnley again, the highest placed team any member of the Irish squad is involved in. Dyche is known for being well organised, spotting opposition weaknesses and instructing his players accordingly. They went after Liverpool earlier in the season targeting corners, as Liverpool struggle with defending them, mind you, everyone knows this, it isn't managerial genius. Dyche took the credit for it, but what the cute fcuker didn't say, or claim any credit for, was how he managed to shut down Liverpool's dangerous attack. In this team, 3 of our players, including 2 of our seemingly more talented ones, not that you would think it from their Ireland performances in the last 2 years, play regularly and seem to be prospering. 

It could be as simple as we have a bunch of players that are not all that good and would benefit from some instruction, but this isn't the case under MON, or seemingly isn't the case. Quite simply, if the players were all that good, half of them wouldn't be in the championship. 




On the matter of Dyche Des , everyone has a roll and the they follow it to the letter . Lets face it they have a bunch of average players but they each know their role within the unit this has to be drilled into to them  . You lose control of the ball fall back that's what they do , so many times I have seen the full backs just fall back instead of going for the ball in midfield say on a 40/60 ball . I think it was Mee and Tarks on football focus one Saturday morning saying that Dyche hates players turning their backs on the ball when a player is going to shoot , he makes them stand there and take it . Now lets face it the one thing you want to do to protect yourself it's just instinct but that is not the Dyche way .  Hey on the other hand lose 3 games in a row and people will be looking to sack him , welcome to todays football , at least it would keep TJ happy
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:19am
Chicken roll or salad roll murph ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

To appoint a good manager for us requires a little imagination, background research and making an attractive offer.  The Irish press and the FAI and fans don't have much of an imagination and reflexively think the only managers available to us are C list managers from the UK.  Irish football fans and media think the EPL is the only league in the world.

We have a lot to offer.  Firstly an attractive salary. Secondly the Irish players are known for their fighting spirit and love of playing for their country, which is not a given in many countries, so coaches would see that as a plus.  The job can be a stepping stone to the EPL or Championship for a relatively unknown foreigner looking to break into the UK.  Marco Silva took the Hull job for example.  Why would he choose a team that were doomed already to relegation?  Thirdly to be a success with us you just have to get us to the 2020 Euros which is very very achievable so its not all doom and gloom.

The only fear is the FAI having no imagination and plumping for a Pulis or Allardyce or someother UK reject.  Now they may well qualify us but the football would not be good and would be another 'lets kick the can down the road' appointment. And in 4 years we have been destroyed again because we play the worst football in Europe.





Agree with all of this. 

F**k everything else a minute. The main thing here is MONEY. That's all most care about. We are paying enough. What other smaller nation like ourselves would be paying top dollars to their coach?

Everyone keeps saying that Euro 2020 will be grand and easy to qualify for. If that's the case this is the perfect time to get someone decent in. They will have some time while they get ready for this. 

I heard Dunphy suggesting Kenny with Kerr. You don't know what to make of him. As soon as he comes in and gets a bad result, Dunphy will be on RTE calling for his head. He's mental. 

I am sick to death to hoofball, hoofing that isn't even executed well Cry


Edited by kearney304 - 22 Nov 2017 at 9:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:25am



[/QUOTE]

Everyone keeps saying that Euro 2020 will be grand and easy to qualify for. If that's the case this is the perfect time to get someone decent in. They will have some time while they get ready for this. 

[/QUOTE]

I don't get this.
It will be the same as France 2016 if not harder as some of the smaller teams will have more hope.

Dont get me wrong, we would be strong favs to qualify but its not a guarantee. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Chicken roll or salad roll murph ?
Don't do rolls in Burnley Baldie , it's pies with red sauce or lard / dripping Dead
Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 2:13pm
A glimpse into Roy Keane's role which he reportedly recieves over 700,000 per year.

Keane books was perhaps correct when he said last month that now his sole role with Ireland was as merely a "cabaret act".

Which, conveniently enough, he is also asked.

"I've been called worse. That doesn't worry me. We're here to try and win matches for Ireland. The beauty is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and stuff like that certainly wouldn't keep me awake at night."

But, we persist, what does he actually do all week?

"Very little! Honestly, we don't do too much. A bit of light training, very little, very little. I'm not sure what I'm doing here to be honest with you!

"I make lots of tea. I do make lots of tea for the staff and stuff. What else do I do? Not too much."

Teasmade

Not bad for someone purportedly hauling in north of €700,000 a year; little wonder, then, he might not be too averse to accepting another two years as a human teasmade? "That's a good question, we'll see."





https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup/i-make-lots-of-tea-what-else-do-i-do-not-much-roy-keane-36299961.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

A glimpse into Roy Keane's role which he reportedly recieves over 700,000 per year.

Keane books was perhaps correct when he said last month that now his sole role with Ireland was as merely a "cabaret act".

Which, conveniently enough, he is also asked.

"I've been called worse. That doesn't worry me. We're here to try and win matches for Ireland. The beauty is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and stuff like that certainly wouldn't keep me awake at night."

But, we persist, what does he actually do all week?

"Very little! Honestly, we don't do too much. A bit of light training, very little, very little. I'm not sure what I'm doing here to be honest with you!

"I make lots of tea. I do make lots of tea for the staff and stuff. What else do I do? Not too much."

Teasmade

Not bad for someone purportedly hauling in north of €700,000 a year; little wonder, then, he might not be too averse to accepting another two years as a human teasmade? "That's a good question, we'll see."





https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup/i-make-lots-of-tea-what-else-do-i-do-not-much-roy-keane-36299961.html

Never mind MON, I have long wondered how Keane gets away with it. At €700k per year for an Assistant's role, he is/was earning more than half the managers at Euro2016, inc Coleman and Lagerback - http://www.kicktv.com/euro-2016-coach-salaries/

And while I wouldn't normally blame anyone for screwing the best salary he/she can from the boss, "Authentic Roy Keane" spent his entire career excoriating team mates, managers, journalists and his own players whom he considered to be "stealing a living".

Then again, what more could we expect from someone who took money from his fans for his "Autobiography" [sic], then cynically admitted that he hadn't even read it, never mind written it...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

A glimpse into Roy Keane's role which he reportedly recieves over 700,000 per year.

Keane books was perhaps correct when he said last month that now his sole role with Ireland was as merely a "cabaret act".

Which, conveniently enough, he is also asked.

"I've been called worse. That doesn't worry me. We're here to try and win matches for Ireland. The beauty is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and stuff like that certainly wouldn't keep me awake at night."

But, we persist, what does he actually do all week?

"Very little! Honestly, we don't do too much. A bit of light training, very little, very little. I'm not sure what I'm doing here to be honest with you!

"I make lots of tea. I do make lots of tea for the staff and stuff. What else do I do? Not too much."

Teasmade

Not bad for someone purportedly hauling in north of €700,000 a year; little wonder, then, he might not be too averse to accepting another two years as a human teasmade? "That's a good question, we'll see."





https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup/i-make-lots-of-tea-what-else-do-i-do-not-much-roy-keane-36299961.html


LOL LOL LOL 

I just thought you were writing a Roy Keane rambling post, even then I thought you'd edited the link article
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 3:17pm
Christ lads if we all believe what Keane says we should pack it in. Everything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt, a lot of it is tongue in cheek. 

And Terry, get back over your side of the fence you mouthpiece. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:


And Terry, get back over your side of the fence you mouthpiece. 
Once again playing the man, rather than the ball.

A Roy Keane fan by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:


And Terry, get back over your side of the fence you mouthpiece. 
Once again playing the man, rather than the ball.

A Roy Keane fan by any chance?

We are lovers actually. 

And he makes lovely tea. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:


And Terry, get back over your side of the fence you mouthpiece. 
Once again playing the man, rather than the ball.

A Roy Keane fan by any chance?

We are lovers actually. 

And he makes lovely tea. 


Does he tea bag you?LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 11:08pm
This is an excellent article by the Examiner's Kieran Shannon. (his background is in sports psychology).

Behind one of those sign in things, so copied it in full. 
Some very valid points in this. 

A couple of months after Martin O’Neill took a sabbatical from football management to help look after his then ill wife Geraldine, this writer interviewed someone who had played minor inter-county Gaelic football with one of O’Neill’s great foot soldiers at Parkhead, Neil Lennon.

Kieran McGeeney was in a particularly expansive mood ahead of the 2005 Ulster final, talking about everything from the benefits of taking up yoga to Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins to why he liked Any Given Sunday so much.

What resonated most with him about Oliver Stone’s film wasn’t the renowned Inches speech which his team famously adopted and popularised before it would become so clichéd: it was that by the end of the film its central figure, Al Pacino’s Tony D’Amoto, had changed. The cent had dropped with him: what had won and worked for him in the past was no longer winning and working.

Watching a proud and embattled O’Neill this past while has reminded us quite a bit of Pacino’s D’Amato. His tetchy interactions with the media, though he’s stopped short of barging Tony O’Donoghue or any reporter to the ground the way John C McGinley’s Jack Rose was sent crashing.

His defiant reminders of his track record, just like D’Amato, cigar in mouth, would hold up the championship ring on his finger to his sceptical team owner Cameron Diaz and tell her “Win one.” Because honours are not easily won.

As O’Neill would point out to O’Donoghue and the nation in the post-match interview last week, this level of sport is tough. It’s tough to win while losing is the toughest of all.

Right now the management of the Irish national football team requires change. A new leadership style is required.

In an ideal world that would involve Martin O’Neill changing, evolving, learning, adapting, like D’Amato did in the movies. With all he’s done for Ireland and in the game, he deserves the chance to be asked if he’s willing to change, and if he suitably outlines that he is, then he should be retained.

But the study of leadership shows that most leaders tend to be fixed in their ways. And if O’Neill, as could be the case, resents even being asked the question, then he is no longer the man for the job.

Because we’ve seen that movie too. After the disappointing Euro 2012, Giovanni Trapattoni’s failure to tweak his methods led to stagnation and regression in his third qualification campaign. O’Neill, as much as the team and the country, should be spared the pattern repeating itself.

Right now, the similarities between O’Neill and Trapattoni are worrying. Watching how ill-prepared Ireland looked when they fell 2-1 behind last Wednesday echoed Trapattoni’s haplessness at Euro 2012 when Ireland trailed so early in every game.

At the time Trap’s response was pretty much, “Hey, what could I do? Our game plan went out the window when we went a goal down.” All the other top coaches working in this country are prepared for such situations. ‘Scenario planning’ they call it. The Irish boxers do it. The Irish rugby team do it. The Dublin footballers do it.

The morning after the Denmark game in the Aviva, I interviewed Jason Sherlock for an piece appearing in this paper next Saturday. He spoke about the hard lessons of the noughties Dublin and he endured as a player. How their approach was too emotionally laden. “Did we have the tactical nuance to understand what to do when we were six points up or when we were a few points down? We probably didn’t.” Repeatedly throughout this campaign Ireland have looked a team without such plans, without a process, when confronted by any situation when the score hasn’t been 0-0.

It comes down to a word so many elite coaches and athletes use and journalists despise, probably because as often as they hear it, they still don’t get what it means: Process. Stick to doing the right things, best practice, best preparation, and the result takes care of itself.

That is not how soccer operates in this country, that is not how the national team operates.

And so, in being so in thrall to the outcome and “the result is all that matters”, we compromise our chances of getting that outcome and result we all desire.

It’s too easy to say it’s too easy to knock O’Neill on one result. It wasn’t a one-off. It was faulty process catching up on him, Ireland, and the FAI.

The players only learn the team an hour or two before kick-off, something this column has written before flies in the face of all known research on optimal peak performance, creating unnecessary ambiguity and over-anxiety. Bad practice, bad process.

Pete Carroll, SuperBowl-winning coach of the Seattle Seahawks, has a mantra: Practice is Everything. “How we practice makes just as important a statement about who we are as how we play the games,” he wrote in Win Forever.

“Practice is something we want to be the best at for its own sake.” Joe Schmidt has a similar outlook, once saying the only way you should know it’s training is because of the gear the players are wearing.

Anyone who has sat in and observed an Irish national soccer training session can hardly vouch it’s treated it like it’s everything.

Even allowing for how limited a window it is and how the players can’t go at the same intensity as Schmidt’s or Carroll’s players can, can anyone truthfully say an O’Neill session is better-designed and more soundly-based than any other team in Ireland’s qualification group? If not, then we’re cheating process, and deservedly not getting the results we’d want.

The issue long predates O’Neill. Last year at a coaching conference at the English FA’s St George’s Park, Lee Carsley, who works with England’s progressive underage squads, spoke about how he developed as a player at Derby when they were a top-10 Premiership club. To keep his place on the team he reckoned he would have to make 50 to 60 passes a game, having an accuracy rate of 70 to 90%.

And so four times a week before training he would go out onto the field and hit a hundred passes. But with Ireland, his preparation was completely thrown off. There was no culture of staying on and doing more. “It was just straight back onto the bus.”

Which raises another issue. Just how responsible should the manager of the international team be for the skill development of players that he does or could operate with?

In interviews to publicise his new autobiography, Eoin Hand has spoken about how he remembers Jock Stein at an international coaching conference rubbishing the notion:

“Either thay can play or thay canna’ play!” And maybe back then, Scotland could look at it like that. Even Ireland, with players like Brady, Lawrenson, and Stapleton, could look at it like that, and prioritise tactics. But now? Can we?

For five successive campaigns now we’ve had managers speak publicly about even mid-tier opponents being “technically superior” to us.

That can’t continue. A Jim McGuinness would never have spoken that way about or to his players even if privately he felt Kerry and Dublin were technically superior.

Not just because it would have been self-serving, giving himself an out but because it would perpetuate the players’ current self-image and skill level.

Fine if Ireland are not able to playing a passing game — at this moment. But coaching is about getting players to do something they once couldn’t. In Pat Lam’s first year at Connacht, they couldn’t pass like a top team. But by year two they could. Because he pushed them. He pushed himself.

Last week when the bookies listed possible candidates to succeed O’Neill, one name jumped out: McGuinness, at 33/1. It’s too early for him; he hasn’t earned it yet. But would he make a brilliant assistant? A brilliant addition to the new setup? Undoubtedly.

He’s hungry. He’s a coach. Donegal’s style of play, especially in 2011, may not have been aesthetically pleasing but you could not dispute they were brilliantly coached and versed in that style of play. Football commentators tend to be overly-fixated with WHAT a coach coaches rather than HOW he coaches.

You could see a McGuinness planning multiple scenarios like a Sherlock or Schmidt. Sitting a player down to see how he could be a better player in a year, for both club and country. How he’d be willing to drive all along the M1 and meet a reserve player to work on his crossing outside club training instead of the traditional practice of taking in a match of his. Don’t just judge the player — coach him.

All this though is about more than O’Neill. It’s the FAI, it’s John Delaney. While their offices are based out in Abbotstown, do they think along the lines of high performance culture elsewhere on the sports campus? Do they get process?

By right it should be Ruud Dokter and not Delaney and the board who O’Neill should be sitting down with to review this past qualifying campaign and his position. But whoever meets O’Neill, it comes down to this: change, Martin, or else we need a change of manager.



Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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