Martin O'Neill...

kearney304 wrote: I believe this is what you said to be exact: If he got us a playoff I'd accept it but we aren't going to get that barring a fluke series of results now.  No qualification, no playoff  I think this is what you said. You are so indecisive regarding O'Neill. You say he won't get a result or he won't do this. Then he does it and you change to what he didn't do in Georgia or at home to Austria.  You don't like MON - that is fine. So far he has achieved his target for the Irish team.  Qualify for Euros  Qualify out of group  Next campaign - make playoff  Go to Russia -  Sure there will be a statue of him if we get to Russia, maybe rename a stand at the Aviva.  But mark my words - even if we make it to Russia - you will be beating a different drum about how he got us there.

See the bit ''barring a fluke series of results'' (i.e. Scotland results had to go our way in 2 games). This quote was also in regards his new contract I believe, and yes I would begrudgingly accept he deserves a new contract based on the result of finishing 2nd despite his horrible approach to the game.


Again I am not indecisive on him at all.  If they do build a statue of him it will be made out of granite because he is from the stone age

A small number?  4 games had to go our way. An accumulator bet. Yeah it wasn't just Scotland but no one else bailed us out did they? We had to have 2 games from that group go our way. And 2 from our group.

Secondly I have never once said I wasn't happy with Meyler starting so you are making stuff up now. What I am saying is how come O'Neill didn't see him as a regular starter a few months back but now finds himself captain?? Surely the captaincy would go to a more senior player while Meyler beds himself in. How come he is immediately captain?
How come last month O'Neill and Keane were praising Whelan to the hilt and saying what a warrior he was yet then drop him after his next game and take the captaincy off him?  How come he was a warrior then but is muck now? Have they never seen him play before?

No I am quite consistent with my views SD I'm afraid. Go sing your ole ole song and worship your dear leader because you are like a cult member getting defensive because someone questions the dear leader.





Edited by Trap junior - 12 Oct 2017 at 7:57pm

planning wrote: Citizen wrote: When there have been no big nights for 14 years, sorry I'd be inclined to disagree. Big nights are what's it's all about. No it most certainly is not. All big nights are, are getting 1-3 points. You need 15-20 more in a campaign to qualify. And qualification is the raison d'etre of the whole exercise. We've won in Wales before, it's not an unprecedented achievement, nor are the opposition much good, as they showed. They have Barnsley and Bristol Rovers journeymen in their squad, that's the standard of personnel the coach was terrified of facing home and away. We could be facing Real, Barca, and Juventus players from now on, how are we going to cope? Watching through our fingers? The win over the Germans is probably long since forgotten by them. They still won the group and comfortably made the semi finals. Losing in Lansdowne is a mere p.s. of their campaign.

Trap junior wrote: A small number?  4 games had to go our way. An accumulator bet. Yeah it wasn't just Scotland but no one else bailed us out did they? We had to have 2 games from that group go our way. And 2 from our group. Secondly I have never once said I wasn't happy with Meyler starting so you are making stuff up now. What I am saying is how come O'Neill didn't see him as a regular starter a few months back but now finds himself captain?? Surely the captaincy would go to a more senior player while Meyler beds himself in. How come he is immediately captain? How come last month O'Neill and Keane were praising Whelan to the hilt and saying what a warrior he was yet then drop him after his next game and take the captaincy off him?  How come he was a warrior then but is muck now? Have they never seen him play before? No I am quite consistent with my views SD I'm afraid. Go sing your ole ole song and worship your dear leader because you are like a cult member getting defensive because someone questions the dear leader.

Ah ffs this is hyothetical. The campaigm was over 10 games and at the end of it we were 2nd and qualified for the play off. No amount of ifs buts or maybes can change that. So what 4 games went our way in the last round of games. They did. Its over.

I think giving Ireland an 8/10 for the Wales games and a 2/10 for the Georgia game is all down to the result of the games, and not about judging those matches on anything else.

In Georgia we played a more effective long-ball game than we did in Cardiff. We created more chances, and if we had've won the game the Georgians couldn't have complained.

The Georgians had all the possession in the first half especially, but did little with it. They scored from about the only chance they created in the whole game. In Cardiff we gave the Welsh all the possession for the entire game, but they failed to score.

In Tbilisi we squandered lots of chances, while we scored from our one and only chance in Cardiff.

The difference between an 8/10 and a 2/10 was not that much in reality.

And this is my criticism of O'Neill. When he plays the long-ball game only, sometimes with just one striker up front and with no attempt to mix up our play, the plan is so rigid that everything has to go our way for us to win.

For this tactic to work we must play a near flawless game. We must defend magnificently, use what limited possession we have to the maximum and score from perhaps as little as one chance on goal.

Wales was a flawless game, but I think it's unrealistic to expect our players to repeat that kind of performance again.


Edited by Terzino - 12 Oct 2017 at 8:43pm

By the same token Brazil abandoned the beautiful game after no wins in 24 years though, the 1994 world cup winners were not easy on the eye

SuperDave84 wrote: Trap junior wrote: A small number?  4 games had to go our way. An accumulator bet. Yeah it wasn't just Scotland but no one else bailed us out did they? We had to have 2 games from that group go our way. And 2 from our group. Secondly I have never once said I wasn't happy with Meyler starting so you are making stuff up now. What I am saying is how come O'Neill didn't see him as a regular starter a few months back but now finds himself captain?? Surely the captaincy would go to a more senior player while Meyler beds himself in. How come he is immediately captain? How come last month O'Neill and Keane were praising Whelan to the hilt and saying what a warrior he was yet then drop him after his next game and take the captaincy off him?  How come he was a warrior then but is muck now? Have they never seen him play before? No I am quite consistent with my views SD I'm afraid. Go sing your ole ole song and worship your dear leader because you are like a cult member getting defensive because someone questions the dear leader. On the first point, we had any number of things that would have worked. Obviously we needed to win our own games, but in each of the others, there was a time when we needed only one achievable result. Croatia and Ukraine to draw (which was certainly possible) Greece not to beat Cyprus (came within one goal) Scotland not to beat Slovenia (which is the one that worked) It's nonsense to say we needed a four way accumulator. We needed one result from three to go our way; it's pretty much the exact opposite of an accumulator. I'm even leaving aside the Northern Ireland group, where one other result might have helped. On the second point, re-read what I said. What I said was that I was sure there was time you were calling for Meyler to start; now he has started, you're still not happy. It's not that you're not happy with Meyler starting; it's that I imagine you were calling for it after the Austria away game, now O'Neill has seen what you probably perceived to have been a mistake, and you're not even happy with that. You also haven't identified who else you would have given the captain's armband to... I doubt it would have been Ward, Brady or Hendrick, none of whom really seem like captains. Meyler is not a bad choice. It's very easy to be negative; where's the alternative, and why would they have been a better option than Meyler? In terms of saying Whelan was a warrior etc etc, I'm sure he was well motivated by it. O'Neill is clearly an excellent man manager and superb motivator; so what if he called Whelan a warrior and then drops him? It clearly hasn't affected Whelan or any other player at all. His motivational skills leave nothing to be desired. One reply to your last paragraph: grow up.

We needed 4 results to go our way before the Moldova match.  I believe the odds of it coming off and making the playoffs were 16% according to a stat I think you posted up here.   If this is what you posted then you are flip flopping. I think you yourself said we were f**ked. Now you are saying it was all quite likely.

Now back to MON.  I want a manager who knows what he is doing. Regarding Meyler. Imagine if Luke Shaw suddenly came into the United team and immediately being made captain. Its bizarre. McClean is captain material and a regular starter before Meyler came in.  Most managers might have given it to him.   I'm not saying Meyler isn't captain material. In fact I think he is a very hearty player if technically mediocre but its not logical to for a player not deemed good enough by MON to suddenly ascend from benchwarmer to captain.

MON is an excellent motivator. I always said he was going back to when he was being touted as manager. The problem is that's all he has got and that was my firm belief then and its an even firmer belief now. He's a one trick pony.  When the players arent at fever pitch motivation, which is most of our games you get terrible performances and his tactics become exposed to even minnow nations. We had Moldova and Georgia dominating us for large periods of the games.   90% of performances under MON are poor in fact. Look at this campaign and honestly evaluate the performances game by game.

As for Whelan I think he and MON were saying how integral he was to the team and then he is gone the very next game. Laughable.  Have they not seen him play for 4 years now? Are they only copping on now? If so they should go straight into the thick thread.

Another thing is that he seemed totally unaware that winning our last two games wasn't enough, that we had to rely on other results. He still didn't know days after the Serbia game. Bizarre.

Trap junior wrote: SuperDave84 wrote: Trap junior wrote: A small number?  4 games had to go our way. An accumulator bet. Yeah it wasn't just Scotland but no one else bailed us out did they? We had to have 2 games from that group go our way. And 2 from our group. Secondly I have never once said I wasn't happy with Meyler starting so you are making stuff up now. What I am saying is how come O'Neill didn't see him as a regular starter a few months back but now finds himself captain?? Surely the captaincy would go to a more senior player while Meyler beds himself in. How come he is immediately captain? How come last month O'Neill and Keane were praising Whelan to the hilt and saying what a warrior he was yet then drop him after his next game and take the captaincy off him?  How come he was a warrior then but is muck now? Have they never seen him play before? No I am quite consistent with my views SD I'm afraid. Go sing your ole ole song and worship your dear leader because you are like a cult member getting defensive because someone questions the dear leader. On the first point, we had any number of things that would have worked. Obviously we needed to win our own games, but in each of the others, there was a time when we needed only one achievable result. Croatia and Ukraine to draw (which was certainly possible) Greece not to beat Cyprus (came within one goal) Scotland not to beat Slovenia (which is the one that worked) It's nonsense to say we needed a four way accumulator. We needed one result from three to go our way; it's pretty much the exact opposite of an accumulator. I'm even leaving aside the Northern Ireland group, where one other result might have helped. On the second point, re-read what I said. What I said was that I was sure there was time you were calling for Meyler to start; now he has started, you're still not happy. It's not that you're not happy with Meyler starting; it's that I imagine you were calling for it after the Austria away game, now O'Neill has seen what you probably perceived to have been a mistake, and you're not even happy with that. You also haven't identified who else you would have given the captain's armband to... I doubt it would have been Ward, Brady or Hendrick, none of whom really seem like captains. Meyler is not a bad choice. It's very easy to be negative; where's the alternative, and why would they have been a better option than Meyler? In terms of saying Whelan was a warrior etc etc, I'm sure he was well motivated by it. O'Neill is clearly an excellent man manager and superb motivator; so what if he called Whelan a warrior and then drops him? It clearly hasn't affected Whelan or any other player at all. His motivational skills leave nothing to be desired. One reply to your last paragraph: grow up. We needed 4 results to go our way before the Moldova match.  I believe the odds of it coming off and making the playoffs were 16% according to a stat I think you posted up here.   If this is what you posted then you are flip flopping. I think you yourself said we were f**ked. Now you are saying it was all quite likely. Now back to MON.  I want a manager who knows what he is doing. Regarding Meyler. Imagine if Luke Shaw suddenly came into the United team and immediately being made captain. Its bizarre. McClean is captain material and a regular starter before Meyler came in.  Most managers might have given it to him.   I'm not saying Meyler isn't captain material. In fact I think he is a very hearty player if technically mediocre but its not logical to for a player not deemed good enough by MON to suddenly ascend from benchwarmer to captain. MON is an excellent motivator. I always said he was going back to when he was being touted as manager. The problem is that's all he has got and that was my firm belief then and its an even firmer belief now. He's a one trick pony.  When the players arent at fever pitch motivation, which is most of our games you get terrible performances and his tactics become exposed to even minnow nations. We had Moldova and Georgia dominating us for large periods of the games.   90% of performances under MON are poor in fact. Look at this campaign and honestly evaluate the performances game by game. As for Whelan I think he and MON were saying how integral he was to the team and then he is gone the very next game. Laughable.  Have they not seen him play for 4 years now? Are they only copping on now? If so they should go straight into the thick thread. Another thing is that he seemed totally unaware that winning our last two games wasn't enough, that we had to rely on other results. He still didn't know days after the Serbia game. Bizarre.

i think i agree with that pretty much. For me making meyler captain was unbelievable. How? If anyone on here 2 months ago said meyler would captain us for the last 2 games of the campaign they would have been laughed at. I think we got away with it to get out of the group so now lets see how we get on in the playoffs.

Green Devil wrote: I'm sure O'Neill wanted some sort of continuity regarding the captaincy. With all due respect his hands were tied to a large extent. McClean was suspended for the Moldova game, Whelan on the back of a below par performance against Georgia was replaced in the team by Meyler who got MOTM against Serbia. O'Shea is a bench warmer, Coleman was injured as was Walters! Also with Shane Long's worrying club form he may not have been an automatic choice to start against Moldova. So Meyler was probably one of three choices who O'Neill would have fancied as captain, the others being Clark and Duffy. All in all is it a big deal? No.

actually i hadnt thought of it like that. Maybe that had something to do with it. Personally i dont think he should be capt of ireland but you may have a point there.