Players eligible for Ireland |
Post Reply | Page <1 265266267268269 450> |
Author | |||
nvidic
Moderator Group Joined: 03 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 18938 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I understand what you're saying conan but to answer your question; bloodline. Players like robinson have blood ties to ireland so playing for ireland has roots. Maybe you feel that simply living in a country for a few years in enough but this is one of the reasons I feels international football is losing its appeal. It's more club football with some mercenaries dotted here and there. The national pride seems to be dwindling [/QUOTE]
Jaysus Christ, find that reprehensible myself, bit different to a lad living in a country a few years and a 7 year old being brought over by his parents.
|
|||
Sponsored Links | |||
pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Jaysus Christ, find that reprehensible myself, bit different to a lad living in a country a few years and a 7 year old being brought over by his parents. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, some lad who has gone to a country to play for a club for his career and with no connection to the place is a long way from someone who has grown up immersed in the local culture.
|
|||
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Exactly. In terms of the 5 year residence requirement, FIFA could easily change that to being 5 years before the age of 18 and it would deal with the issue of lads who only qualify by residence as a result of being professional footballers. It is a bit ridiculous that a lad with, say, a Luxembourg under 15 appearance can be held to Luxembourg over one his grandparent's countries, but a better player, say a Brazilian, can move to Spain aged 21 and, assuming he has no Brazilian underage appearances (because there are literally thousands of decent Brazilian players and he was never selected), can play for Spain after 5 years.
|
|||
|
|||
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
From that Thornley article: "Five is roughly equivalent to 20 years in the working lives of most adults, especially given rugby’s ever-shortening careers" What, do we measure rugby years like dog years now?
|
|||
|
|||
Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10347 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I think Thornley makes a lot of very valid points. Especially considering the management of the provinces and the loyalty to the provinces that has been so evident since the dawn of professionalism. Nationalism, citizenship and eligibility are complex things and most sports have their own absurd rules which are either highly restrictive or too lax.
|
|||
Conan
Davey Langan I’m not very bright. Joined: 11 Mar 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 917 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Irish blood has exactly the same chemical components as the rest of the world though, we don't have shamrock shaped vessels. Ancestral genetic concepts of identity are meaningless in any terms, its the environment you grow up in that defines you, that doesn't mean you can't have an Irish identity if you're like Breen or Kilbane with all Irish family and immersed in the Irish community in England but this really doesn't apply to the likes of Robinson. It doesn't even look like he's legally entitled to play for us anyway according to FIFA rules. Can't understand how you could argue Robinson, or Crowley for that matter, is more Irish than Fati is Spanish, especially as they had already chosen another country ahead of us as long as they were wanted by the other country. Its just not an objective argument. |
|||
Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
With that logic then conan, the standard for representing a country is negligible. Why does even living in the country matter? Why cant you just feel irish or feel close to irish culture and want to play for ireland/England etc
Fifa have applied a standard, I don't think that standard benefits international football. These standards have changed over the years and will very likely change again. If fact there seems to be confusion in the current rules that have delayed Johansson playing for ireland. |
|||
Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10347 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Living and working in Ireland eventually allows you to qualify to apply for citizenship. I know with spouses it’s 3 years, which actually reflects the IRB’s rule in regard to residency. It’s a lot less fluky than the jus sanguinus approach, which means you can have no spiritual or emotional connection to the country, but you qualify, notwithstanding you may never have set foot in the country. Why should somebody, whose grandparents may have only had a blood lineage link to Ireland, be entitled when somebody who may have directly contributed to Irish society by way of community work, tax paying etc be deemed less so? It’s slightly absurd when you think about it. Feeling Irish or a being close to its culture makes you an Eireaphile (is that what’s it’s called), and nothing more. It would be a much, much lower bar than those connected by bloodline or those who live and work in the country. You wouldn’t hand out citizenships on that basis. But the bar that people who come and live in ireland might qualify for participation in a private organisation, is totally reasonable to me.
|
|||
The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9485 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Has it occurred to anyone that blood linkage and naturalisation might both be perfectly legitimate reasons to entitle someone to play for a country? Clearly all of this moaning over how many years are needed to make you Irish and when these years need to occur in your lifespan is rooted in a deeper moral panic about international football "losing its identity". Where exactly is the evidence for this? In my experience, the only "evidence" most people can present is that they watched a game and saw too many guys playing for a country that "weren't the right colour, didn'thave the right names" etc etc. That is not evidence of international football losing its identity, its evidence of your own psychological biases and narrow mindedness....
|
|||
We're decent enough..
|
|||
DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
An Irish-born grandparent qualifies you for Irish citizenship. An Irish born parent makes you an Irish citizen from birth. Those are rights protected by our constitution for the benefit of you, your kids, your grandkids and so on. Leaving football out of this, if you have a quarrel with Callum Robinsons right to an Irish passport, you should bring that up with the government.
|
|||
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
|||
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
There's actually a little more to it than that. An Irish-born person with an Irish citizen parent is an Irish citizen from birth. Regardless of location of birth, any person born with an Irish-born Irish citizen parent is an Irish citizen from birth. Regardless of location of birth, any person born with any class of Irish citizen parent (provided that parent was an Irish citizen at the time of the child's birth) is entitled to entry on the register of foreign births, and thus entitled to citizenship. So if you only get your citizenship because you have an Irish grandparent,
your children are still entitled to citizenship, provided at the time of their birth, you were already an Irish citizen. There is no requirement that that person have any particular class of citizenship. The same applies to their children, and their children, etc. It means, for example, you could have ten generations of people with Irish passports who have never even been to Ireland never mind having been born there but, provided each parent gets Irish citizenship before their children are born, their children will remain entitled to Irish citizenship. However, for FIFA eligibility purposes, they wouldn't be eligible unless their parents or grandparents were born in Ireland.
|
|||
|
|||
cildaratown
Liam Brady killdare town Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1390 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Does it work like that? If you get irish citizenship through an Irish Granny, your kids would then be eligible for citizenship? Thought both the mom and dad would have to be citizens for that to happen.
|
|||
Conan
Davey Langan I’m not very bright. Joined: 11 Mar 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 917 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
There's a difference though between having a legal right to apply for citizenship and actually being Irish in any meaningful way. I doubt Robinson would ever have given a second thought to the Irish origins of one branch of his family as they were not relevant to him, had in not been an expedient route in to international football when he realised he wasn't likely to make it with England. That in itself has to be wrong as you should represent in an actual way the country you are playing for or else international football is just club football. It just cheapens our national team In the legal sense anyway Robinson shouldn't have been able to transfer as the Johansson case is proving.
|
|||
DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
With all respect, the constitutional right to citizenship that is afforded to me and my kids is more meaningful than whatever your definition of “meaningful” is here.
|
|||
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
|||
SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
It does work like that:
"(1) A person is an Irish citizen from birth if at the time of his or her birth either parent was an Irish citizen or would if alive have been an Irish citizen. ... (3) Subsection (1) shall not confer Irish citizenship on a person born outside the island of Ireland if the parent through whom he or she derives citizenship was also born outside the island of Ireland unless ... that person’s birth is registered under section 27" Section 27: "(1) A foreign births entry book shall be kept at such Irish diplomatic missions and consular offices as the Minister for Foreign Affairs may, from time to time, specify in regulations. (1A) A foreign births register shall be kept in the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin. (2) The birth outside the island of Ireland of a person deriving citizenship through a father or mother so born may be registered, in accordance with the foreign births regulations, either in any foreign births entry book or in the foreign births register, at the option of the person registering the birth." So once the parent is a citizen and registered at the time of the kid's birth, it's all good. |
|||
|
|||
Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Edited by Territorial - 21 Sep 2019 at 8:47pm |
|||
Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Absolutely not. By far the biggest change recently was scrapping the rule that changes couldn't be made after 21, also that a full international friendly didn't tie you to your first country. This was at the instigation of African countries. They saw how many 1st generation emigrants to France, Belgium and Germany etc were getting capped at under-age level by their coutry of birth, but then failing to make it right the way up to senior "A" level (or maybe getting one or two friendly caps even before turning 21) before being discarded. They might still be good enough to play for their ancestral home, but were tied. Iirc, the African nations staged a surprise vote at a FIFA AGM to push this through before UEFA could get organised to resist. In fact I've just this moment remembered, it was Freddie Kanoute's case which prompted the change: "While playing for Lyon, Kanouté joined the French under-21 team.[13] After turning 21 in 1998, Kanouté was not called up for the French national squad in 2000, 2002, or 2004. In 2004, FIFA
changed its rules to allow a footballer to play for the national team
of the country in which his mother or father was born. Although eligible
for either, Kanouté elected to play for Mali rather than for France."
Edited by Territorial - 21 Sep 2019 at 9:01pm |
|||
Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Good shout territorial - imo It still seems that improvements could be made in this area however
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <1 265266267268269 450> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |