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reforming defunct clubs/LOI 1st Division
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Ray Houghton
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Points: 4932 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corkery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 6:38pm
Any new clubs should be from areas where people will actually go to the games. Salthill don't have a stand and isn't near a town, they will never get fans. Longford would be able to get a few more if they actually played in Longford Town. Just look at Finn Harps, they are in the town and get a good enough crowd. Wexford would get a few more if they were in Wexford Town.
'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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Kevin Kilbane
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Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

 

You are dead right. Cobh who spend 5 of the last 6 years outside the LoI, Longford who nearly went bust and Athlone who were last in the PD in the 1995 and have not finished in the top half of the 1st since 2001. 
 
Survive? Maybe. Compete? Not a hope.
What club hasn't nearly went bust in the last 10 years. When Cobh were in the premier in 2008 they got better crowds than Drogs and Shels get now. Thats in a town of 12,000 people with one the biggest clubs in the country playing 20 minutes up the road. Small town teams can be successful.

Fair enough Athlone are sh*te and have been for 15 years but they still survive which is all that is needed at the moment. The LOI needs more clubs. You cannot run a two tiered national league with 20 clubs, two of which are glorified galway junior clubs who play in fields. You also cannot have a single tiered league because you'd have 15 clubs with nothing to play for. Something needs to be done because it can't keep going the way it is.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Also rtid, I'm sure you'll remember Longfords successful period in the noughties when they got to four FAI cup finals, won two, had many european appearances and finished top half four years in a row. All while averaging crowds of in and around 1000. And they come from a town of 9,000 people. So it is possible for small town clubs to do well.



Edited by gazelle. - 11 Jun 2013 at 7:26pm
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Originally posted by sham157 sham157 wrote:

Trapped, we faced the same problems with the local clubs all around the county. For us to come back and survive with a decent crowd and sponsorship, we would need a set up almost identical to the GAA system of county boards. There was one pub in Monaghan where you would think twice about wearing mons gear in cos it was a Monaghan Town FC haunt. The attitude of clubs in the county and in particular the North Monaghan area was one disdain towards us. That coupled with the lazy and not to start an argument, but barstool mentality will ensure that we won't have a place in LOI football for the foreseeable. When we reached the EA Sports Cup Final a few seasons ago, only one club in the county approached us looking for an official if you like allocation from Mons.

Wheres this sham?
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Ray Houghton
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Very good thread i must say Thumbs Up
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:




Originally posted by 'roverstilidie' 'roverstilidie' wrote:

With the exception of Swords, there are no towns without a LoI club big enough to support one.
I disagree, there a number of urban areas throughout the country similar or even bigger in size than Sligo, which has a population of 19,500. 



Navan - 28,500

Ennis - 25,300

Kilkenny - 24,400

Tralee - 23,600

Carlow - 23,000 

PortLaoise- 20,000

Mullingar - 20,000



That is just a few of them. Of these towns only Kilkenny have chanced their arm at LOI football. There is enough towns to support a decent number of LOI clubs. The regional policy hasn't been tried properly. 







How much more money were the FAI expected to throw at it. Clubs in these towns aren't interested. I would love to see teams in Ennis, Kilkenny and Tralee for the trips alone, but it ain't happening.

Sligo do exceptionally well to get what is in effect 12% of the town at games. You are making a lethal logical leap if you think PortLaoise could do the same.


We do get a good bit of support from outside the town and even the county as well
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Originally posted by colmoc colmoc wrote:

Originally posted by sham157 sham157 wrote:

Trapped, we faced the same problems with the local clubs all around the county. For us to come back and survive with a decent crowd and sponsorship, we would need a set up almost identical to the GAA system of county boards. There was one pub in Monaghan where you would think twice about wearing mons gear in cos it was a Monaghan Town FC haunt. The attitude of clubs in the county and in particular the North Monaghan area was one disdain towards us. That coupled with the lazy and not to start an argument, but barstool mentality will ensure that we won't have a place in LOI football for the foreseeable. When we reached the EA Sports Cup Final a few seasons ago, only one club in the county approached us looking for an official if you like allocation from Mons.


Wheres this sham?


Shamrock on a town match day, some of them would even go to Dundalk games to make a point of supporting anybody but Mons.

Edited by sham157 - 11 Jun 2013 at 9:39pm
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Originally posted by sham157 sham157 wrote:

Originally posted by colmoc colmoc wrote:

Originally posted by sham157 sham157 wrote:

Trapped, we faced the same problems with the local clubs all around the county. For us to come back and survive with a decent crowd and sponsorship, we would need a set up almost identical to the GAA system of county boards. There was one pub in Monaghan where you would think twice about wearing mons gear in cos it was a Monaghan Town FC haunt. The attitude of clubs in the county and in particular the North Monaghan area was one disdain towards us. That coupled with the lazy and not to start an argument, but barstool mentality will ensure that we won't have a place in LOI football for the foreseeable. When we reached the EA Sports Cup Final a few seasons ago, only one club in the county approached us looking for an official if you like allocation from Mons.


Wheres this sham?


Shamrock on a town match day, some of them would even go to Dundalk games to make a point of supporting anybody but Mons.
jaysus didn't realise there was such a divide. Was thinking it was gonna be the shambles though. Seeeeeeeee yeeeeeeeee
Didn't one of the smiths that are heavily involved with the town play with Dundalk a few years ago or is that in my head?

Edited by colmoc - 11 Jun 2013 at 10:02pm
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Yeah Paul Smyth, played for us and Dundalk. He would be one that would trek to Oriel. The cousin lives next door to him and I collected him one evening to go to Gortakeegan, when the Smyth clan were setting off for Dundalk. Sad really.
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It's hard to know where to go in fairness. Castlebar Celtic tried their luck in the A Championship, but the idea of playing in a league against reserve teams just didn't excite people. When I was a kid, Celtic Park would be absolutely jammed for Connacht Senior League games. I have no idea why that died, or why the crowds just aren't interested anymore.
 
Have a good friend who is a massive Mayo fan. He is a football fan too but hasn't gone to Celtic because he isn't from Castlebar. But he made a great point about my own team at Celtic. We were in an FAI Cup Final in Turner's Cross and nobody in town knew. f**k all radio coverage, a bit on the papers. The only reason he knew was through me. If Castlebar Mitchell's U18s had reached a national final, (GAA) the town would be decked in yellow and red. And I can't figure out why that is.
 
He said if there was a "Mayo FC" he would follow them. I'd love to know how feasible that would be. I know there is a "Mayo League" team, but it's not the same thing. If I won the euro millions, I'd set that club up tomorrow!!
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Jack Charlton
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Lads, we can have 10, 12, 20 or 40 teams. it is what it is and no amount of tinkering with it will change that. watching it for too long to have any illusions to the contrary
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The problem with the FAI is that they care f**k all about the league. It's a disaster from start to finish.

Firstly, most places in both the Premier League and the First division pay less than the licencing costs in the first place.

Then you have such a short season. Why are contracts only March to October? Why can't each club decide how long the contracts will be? March to October is such a short time. A massive off-season means full-time contracts are practically a no-goer for more than one year contracts meaning players can be lost to England on the cheap.

Jaysus I wish I was in charge of the league. I'd say, in fact I'm certain I'd do a better job than the FAI.

And to add to that last point, there is very good debate in this thread. One thing the FAI need to do is to get people discussing where to take the league. I really think the FAI are just winging it. I know Platinum One offered an alternative league but I don't think that would have been a runner. Ultimately, All-Ireland league is the way to go. That won't happen until both national leagues get their own houses in order.


Edited by David McWilliams - 12 Jun 2013 at 1:01am
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

T
 Why are contracts only March to October? 



Ultimately, All-Ireland league is the way to go. That won't happen until both national leagues get their own houses in order.

The short contracts are to allow players to get work in the off season or to sign on the dole. The All-Ireland league won't happen because the North is mainly Unionist and it's an attack on their country, furthermore, they are happy having a small league with small distance travel which allows them easy European Spots.
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Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Also rtid, I'm sure you'll remember Longfords successful period in the noughties when they got to four FAI cup finals, won two, had many european appearances and finished top half four years in a row. All while averaging crowds of in and around 1000. And they come from a town of 9,000 people. So it is possible for small town clubs to do well.

Of course it is and I am not suggesting otherwise. But aside from the sustainability argument, similar sized towns to Longford don't want to know. So what do we do? IMO if a regional club organically steps up, excellent, give them all the help they need. But this cannot be the priority for the FAI.
 
I think dangling carrots in front of teams currently playing in the IFA's space is a far more potentially successful policy. Teams in places with the population to support them
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This whole debate really goes back to the fact that we dont have in general a culture of supporting football clubs at local level. Take a town like Navan for example with a reasonable large population and a healthy appetite for sport. There must be at least 10 football clubs within 5 miles of Navan and would be seen as a potential market for a new LOI team. But and this is the kernal of the matter, talking to local lads few of them have nay respect for LOI football and wouldnt bother there backsides going. The strange irony is that the lads in Navan who do support LOI teams support Drogheda or blow-ins who support Dublin clubs. Talking to the Navan based Drogs fans, if a new club was set up in Navan they would continue to support Drogheda.
 
The example of Ballinamallard has been sighted as a positve example but it could be argued that they draw there support from that sector of society in Fermanagh outside of the GAA cohort and would be seen as something of a symbol of identity within there own community. I dont know too much about the players who play for Ballinamallard but i would take a guess that they are locally based and wouldnt have there teams filled with lads from Belfast unlike Monaghan and Kilkenny whose teams had a large number of Dublin based players.
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My reason for making my suggestions at the start of this thread is that I feel football needs to be developed in the Republic and there needs to be a pyramid system which would encourage growth and promotion of the game. 
 
I have already used the SFL as an example and here is why.  While Scotland has a bigger football tradition when you look at the teams in the lower regions in Scotland they are from similar sized towns to what we are talking about in Ireland.  Cowdenbeath for example has a population of 11,000 and is close to Dunfermline a bigger town with a modestly succussful club yet they've existed just fine for over 130 years.  Most Scottish League clubs get by on a couple of hundred attending games, they get no TV money or coverage.  These clubs know they will never get to the SPL but accept their lot and get on with it. 
 
My second example was Warrenpoint Town in the irish League set up.  25 years after forming they have made it to the IFA Premiership from a town of 7,000.  Why, because they grew slowly and had a progression route. 
 
If a Kerry, Mayo, Carlow, Tipperary County side were formed would there be anything worng with them being part time clubs getting a couple of hundred at games?  It could only help grow and sustain football in ireland and give us a decent spread of clubs with a proper structure in place. 
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Savo - take your point about Warrenpoint but in all reality the 2nd tier of the IL is no better in quality than the LSL and i cannot imagine their players are paid much more than expenses. Similarly players in the lower leagues in scotland are paid very little sometimes as little as £10/20 a week. Teams in the lower leagues in Scotland and to a lesser extent in England are supported by local businesses and there is an element of kudos to having a league club located in your town.
 
It would be very difficult as be been proved on several occassions for a LOI first division team to survive on attendances of a couple of hundred per forthnight. Imagine the cost of a Kerry based team with away games in Ballybofey, Longford, Galway (twice)........
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