Scottish Independence. |
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Beg to differ. They will be under pressure from the other nations to let a willing and valuable new European partner enter the fray. And they must also remember their duty to their own citizen's resident in Scotland who want to be part of the EU. And yet again the London media in their safe little upper middle class bubbles completely fail to understand just what is going on up here. For example, failing to recognise that it is the Scottish Parliament that actually has the power over the franchise for a future referendum, not Westminster. So we can and will include the 16 and 17 year olds plus our resident EU nationals. It's amazing how the London media also keep claiming that the minority SNP administration won't get an independence referendum bill through the Scottish parliament. That is utter bollocks which shows how ignorant these Times, Mail, Torygraph, Guardian types. Why is it bollocks ? The Green Party is committed to another independence referendum and their MSP's hold the balance of power at Holyrood. And playing up the desperate "we fought together and died together at the Somme and Normandy" really isn't cutting it with younger voters who are beyond such pathetic emotional blackmail. Or the bizarre appeals from Labour (of all parties) politicians praising England and Scotland building the British Empire together as some kind of amazing, beautiful, charitable endeavour.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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Will that value extend to the as yet unquantified position of an Independent Scottish economy? That has been something that will need to be satisfactorily answered before the EU will even consider letting Scotland join. The value of an Independent Scotland to the citizens will be priceless, but that will not be enough for the EU which is just emerging from a massive and unprecedented economic crisis, which has been created in part by the manner in which the Eurozone behaved when admitting nations that were unsuitable for membership of the single currency. And also, it will take serious time before entry is ratified, if it is at all. Scotland won't have some some of fastrack to join the Union.
I have absolutely no issue with another referendum.
Edited by Het-field - 15 Mar 2017 at 8:50pm |
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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I won't lie to you and claim to have answers at hand. Economics is not something I am clued up on, so I won't try and bullsh*t someone about a subject I don't know much about. However in the interest of fairness I would like to refer you to the pro-independence case for Scotland's economy at http://www.businessforscotland.com/ which is the only economic and financial news source offering an alternative to the Telegraph, Times, Mail, Guardian etc who are all avowedly opposed to Scotland being independent. From my personal experience especially with young voters, independence is attractive because it's about the exciting, inspiring prospect of ordinary Scots people building a re-born country, forging our own path ahead, turning the old rotten conventions on their head. Many people simply fail to recognise this point and how powerful it has been. We started the last referendum with only about 20% of Scots being pro-independence and faced a three year long hurricane of hostility from both broadcast and print media. Every dirty personal trick was used to smear us and denigrate our cause and yet we still got to 45% of the voters in spite of that. Yes Scotland did incredible considering also that they had to work with a hell of a lot less money than did Better Together who had oil barons, arms dealers and city financiers bankrolling them. It was also thanks to one of the most incredible and absolutely inspiring, positive and uplifting grassroots campaign on the streets and doorsteps of Scotland - the likes of which has arguably not been seen in British politics since the 1945 election. It's game fecking on next time.
Never said you did old chap. Just venting my frustration at the self proclaimed experts in the media who clearly don't know how things are at the moment up here but make their tut tutting judgements snug in Fleet Street. |
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zizu Kilbane
Jack Charlton Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 8365 |
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Spain will be a massive barrier to an independent Scotland (and a a reintegrated northern ireland) rejoin the EU. They would be afraid this would set a precident for the likes of Catalunya and the Basque region
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"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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The ethereal arguments related to Scottish Independence are compelling, and are sufficiently compelling to make a strong case for independence. But I'm still not seeing the compelling arguments that Scotland can stand on it's own feet, economically speaking after the cord is cut from Westminster. Many of the misty eyed points which suggest Independence is the way to go are enough to convince many people, and is arguable that they should, and that short-medium term policy and political outcomes should not impede the goal of an independent Scotland, but I think my point really boils down to my belief that there are not argument to combat the short-medium term aspects, and I feel that is where the difficulty will come into play.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Thank God we Oirish didn't go the independence route and stayed part of the UK. We'd have been a total disaster as an independent country.
Let's pray it never, ever happens. Better together!
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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I would not trade Irish independence for anything, but that's not to say that we have not had our problems as an independent nation. These are problems which would undoubtedly get an airing if we were discussing the legacy of Fianna Fail, or the Catholic Church in Ireland. |
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Unelected British Prime Minister Theresa May tells elected Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon "you can't have another referendum and you're leaving the EU whatever happens".
Should go down well.
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corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
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She was elected by the British. Scotland voted to be British. |
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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12169 |
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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A mandate can come in different shapes and sizes. Election by the party of Government, when a Prime Minister resigns ranks equal to election by popular vote, in the United Kingdom.
Edited by Het-field - 16 Mar 2017 at 7:33pm |
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12169 |
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She wasn't the leader of the Conservative party when they won the last General Election. Would they have won with her as leader? Probably but she wasn't in the running for PM at the time.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row |
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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In reality, that is irrelevant. It is known and understood that a PM may exit office during the lifetime of the Government, and it is legitimate for the governing party to elect a new leader, and by extension a new PM. And lets be realistic, if she was to run today she would extend the margin of victory by a country mile.
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corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
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It's the Westminster style system that Parliament elects the government. It's been that way for centuries.
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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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Newryrep
Paul McGrath Just can't get enough of lists Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15258 |
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Could well be playing a blinder like her predecessor . A fair few on the yes think it's to soon but she may well have made the calculation that May will reject her timetable as she will have her hands full re brexit so English tories reject referendum Referendum gets pushed back a future year or so A few more cold winters take their toll |
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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941 |
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12169 |
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10659 |
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The fact that she was elected by the Conservative Party, and not by the British public doesn't interfere with her mandate as PM. Hence, it is not a particularly relevant fact in the context of this debate. But as you've so graciously bowed out, I suspect you have let me have the last word. Thanks!
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corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
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Yes she was elected. It's their system. Parliament is supreme.
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'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
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