Trap - Stay/Move on?

Citizen wrote: how could you view it any other way, on paper we had to get a win against Russia as we fooked up against slovakia at home a few days earlier, it was expected that slovakia would beat armenia, and if that happened, it was highly unlikely we would have even got a playoff spot. those are the facts, please enlighten me on their inaccuracies. I remember leaving the Luzniki stadium with 100s of other Irish fans resigned to us not qualifying.

The group produced all kinds of surprises the whole way through. We still had Andorra to face and had the final game at home, while Slovakia had to face Russia and go to Macedonia, which they won neither. Russia had to go to Zilina and get at least the same result we did, Armenia still had to come to Dublin and because they dropped points earlier in the group, had to come to Dublin looking for a win to stay in it.

Points are not won on likelihood, they're won on grass. We got 3 points from the Russia and Slovakia group games. We were still in a very strong position going into the last two games, which we took advantage of.

Citizen wrote: they lamented their lack of perceived technique and talked about grass-roots development but Hodgson was praised for the manner in which he managed the team, as he was deemd to have exceeded expectations.

He wasn't praised for doing a "Trap" job on the French, nor letting Pirlo have the freedom of Kiev to dictate the play in their quarter final, and most admitted they were lucky that Ukraine goal didn't stand. Their expectations were low going into the tournament, and they got as far as they thought they would.

planning wrote: only to be saved by a fearless performance by that young armenian team. Wrong.   [quote]

Citizen wrote: incessant negativity? i actually watch the team play, at full time at the luzhniki stadium we had resigned oursleves to not even being in the playoff position

Now that is incessant negativity.

I wanted that point out there, just as Trap did, and was almost doing cartwheels when we got it.

only to be saved by a fearless performance by that young armenian team.

Wrong.

Completely Agree Citizen!!

Citizen wrote: Drumcondra 69er wrote: SteviesGranny wrote: Citizen wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: Hang on a sec Milla.......embarrassed is far too strong a word to use in my opinion. it was complete mortification in football terms, its one thing playing sh*t on a stick, its another playing thing playing it and still getting walloped, we conttributed absolutely nothing to a marvellous footballing tournament. There was no positives to take from it Nobody can deny this lads even if you do want Trap to stay. We played 270 minutes of absolutely dreadful stuff. Must be up there with some of the worse performances from a nation at this level. Can't have seen much tournament football if you think that's the case. Spain was the one game in which we were humiliated. Against Croatia, although they were undoubtedly the better team, the game hinged on two decisions, the one to allow their second goal despite the offside and the foul on Ward and the one not to award a stonewall penalty when Keane was taken down in the box. Those decisions got the other way and we could have been looking at, an admitedly lucky, 2-2 draw. I've seen teams play far worse and sneak something from games like that. Against Italy the general concensus at the time was that it was an improved performance and we were in the game until Shay had his brain fart and dropped the ball out for the corner they scored from. Despite losing 2-0 in a dead rubber I think we put up a better performance against Italy than England did in their nil all draw for example. Yes, we looked bereft of ideas and lacked a cutting edge. We also looked to be carrying injuries on our best players in qualoification with Given, Dunne and O'Shea all below par fitness wide. But, as I said at the time if people think that by putting lads such as Hoolahan who took till he was 29 to reach the Premier League or the likes of Clark, Pilkington etc who had less then a seasons worth of top level experience in would have made a blind nit of difference against the quality we had to play then they need their heads checked. The way people go on you'd swear we were leaving Messi at home. Seems that a players ability gets multiplied exponentially every game he doesn't play for Ireland. Would some of you honestly had been happier if we hadn't qualified, serious question? your completely missing the point to be honest, the performances in all 3 games were dreadful, you way against italy it was a marked improvement, if creating zero chances in a game which we only playing for pride is a marked improvment, we really need to raise the bar. Your point about us playing better against Italy than England did is absolutely laughable to be honest. Their organisation in that game was superb (barring individual brilliance from Pirlo) Hodgson only had 2 weeks to prepare but managed to show show the english players how to play our system better than we ever did after 4 years. You say Hoolohan should not be picked as it took him till 29 to reach the EPL, Keith Andrews (our best performer at the euros) didnt feature in the PL until he was 28, and never accounted himself as well as Hoolohan did. You also mention clark as being inexperienced, yet as a premier leage regualr for two seasons has played infinetly more against better class opposition than St ledger who has not even had one minute game time in the PL, and struggled to even get into a mid table championship team, his lack of international class was very much exposed at the Euros. Evert aspect of Traps mgmt was a failure in the euros, from preparation, to squad selection, tactics, substitutions, man management, motivation, and ultimately team performance, it wasnt the results that had many disillusioned, it was the manner of them.

Clark has not been an EPL regular for 2 seasons for a start, he's been in abs out of the team and has played more often in midfield or full back than at centre half. His form over those two seasons has been mixed as well.

My point about Hoolahan is that he wouldn't have made any difference had he been picked, he's a useful player but is limited, there's a reason why it took him that long to get to where he is. Even Lambert last season would only pick him when he had 5 across the middle, any time he went with two up top he was the one sacrificed. It's a nonsense to say he's made a better fist of the EPL than Andrews who played a number of seasons there and had a decent cameo with West Brom
in it last year.

And England were garbage v Italy, they were blessed to get away with nil all. The fact you exclude Pirlo from your argument negates your entire point.

As usual your incessant negatively and dislike for Trap prevents you from having any objectivity whatsoever.

SteviesGranny wrote: Drumcondra 69er wrote: SteviesGranny wrote: Citizen wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: Hang on a sec Milla.......embarrassed is far too strong a word to use in my opinion.   it was complete mortification in football terms, its one thing playing sh*t on a stick, its another playing thing playing it and still getting walloped, we conttributed absolutely nothing to a marvellous footballing tournament. There was no positives to take from it Nobody can deny this lads even if you do want Trap to stay. We played 270 minutes of absolutely dreadful stuff. Must be up there with some of the worse performances from a nation at this level. Can't have seen much tournament football if you think that's the case.  Spain was the one game in which we were humiliated.  Against Croatia, although they were undoubtedly the better team, the game hinged on two decisions, the one to allow their second goal despite the offside and the foul on Ward and the one not to award a stonewall penalty when Keane was taken down in the box.  Those decisions got the other way and we could have been looking at, an admitedly lucky, 2-2 draw.  I've seen teams play far worse and sneak something from games like that. Against Italy the general concensus at the time was that it was an improved performance and we were in the game until Shay had his brain fart and dropped the ball out for the corner they scored from.  Despite losing 2-0 in a dead rubber I think we put up a better performance against Italy than England did in their nil all draw for example. Yes, we looked bereft of ideas and lacked a cutting edge.  We also looked to be carrying injuries on our best players in qualoification with Given, Dunne and O'Shea all below par fitness wide.  But, as I said at the time if people think that by putting lads such as Hoolahan who took till he was 29 to reach the Premier League or the likes of Clark, Pilkington etc who had less then a seasons worth of top level experience in would have made a blind nit of difference against the quality we had to play then they need their heads checked.  The way people go on you'd swear we were leaving Messi at home.  Seems that a players ability gets multiplied exponentially every game he doesn't play for Ireland. Would some of you honestly had been happier if we hadn't qualified, serious question? I admire your loyalty 69er but you are looking at our performances through green tinted glasses if you think they were anything but terrible.

Drumcondra 69er wrote: SteviesGranny wrote: Citizen wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: Hang on a sec Milla.......embarrassed is far too strong a word to use in my opinion.   it was complete mortification in football terms, its one thing playing sh*t on a stick, its another playing thing playing it and still getting walloped, we conttributed absolutely nothing to a marvellous footballing tournament. There was no positives to take from it Nobody can deny this lads even if you do want Trap to stay. We played 270 minutes of absolutely dreadful stuff. Must be up there with some of the worse performances from a nation at this level. Can't have seen much tournament football if you think that's the case.  Spain was the one game in which we were humiliated.  Against Croatia, although they were undoubtedly the better team, the game hinged on two decisions, the one to allow their second goal despite the offside and the foul on Ward and the one not to award a stonewall penalty when Keane was taken down in the box.  Those decisions got the other way and we could have been looking at, an admitedly lucky, 2-2 draw.  I've seen teams play far worse and sneak something from games like that. Against Italy the general concensus at the time was that it was an improved performance and we were in the game until Shay had his brain fart and dropped the ball out for the corner they scored from.  Despite losing 2-0 in a dead rubber I think we put up a better performance against Italy than England did in their nil all draw for example. Yes, we looked bereft of ideas and lacked a cutting edge.  We also looked to be carrying injuries on our best players in qualoification with Given, Dunne and O'Shea all below par fitness wide.  But, as I said at the time if people think that by putting lads such as Hoolahan who took till he was 29 to reach the Premier League or the likes of Clark, Pilkington etc who had less then a seasons worth of top level experience in would have made a blind nit of difference against the quality we had to play then they need their heads checked.  The way people go on you'd swear we were leaving Messi at home.  Seems that a players ability gets multiplied exponentially every game he doesn't play for Ireland. Would some of you honestly had been happier if we hadn't qualified, serious question?

I admire your loyalty 69er but you are looking at our performances through green tinted glasses if you think they were anything but terrible.

Drumcondra 69er wrote: The main rump of indo group journalists (Fanning in the Sindo & Hyland in the herald in particular) nailed their colours firmly to the Venables mast before Trap was appointed and have had the hump and peddled an agenda ever since. God knows where we'd be had that clown been appointed post Stan. We're now in a position where after 3 campaigns of not even making a play off the current manager has taken us to a controversial play off exit and a finals where we admittedly underperformed but the entire Trap reign is being judged on those 3 games only, it's skewed logic to say the least. I don't agree with everything he's done and I think his communication leaves a lot to be desired. I think he should attend more games. But I'm objective enough not to fall into the UK style tabloid witch hunt mentality that seems to be more and more prevalent this side of the water. Countries such as England and Holland have bombed out of tournaments in similar fashion in the past, it's not unique. And there are no viable alternatives out there in any case, the FAI are in no position to pay off one manager and go search for another, he's here for 2 years, end of story and no amount of bleating from the likes of Fanning and Sadlier will even register on his radar.

SteviesGranny wrote: Citizen wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: Hang on a sec Milla.......embarrassed is far too strong a word to use in my opinion.   it was complete mortification in football terms, its one thing playing sh*t on a stick, its another playing thing playing it and still getting walloped, we conttributed absolutely nothing to a marvellous footballing tournament. There was no positives to take from it Nobody can deny this lads even if you do want Trap to stay. We played 270 minutes of absolutely dreadful stuff. Must be up there with some of the worse performances from a nation at this level.

Can't have seen much tournament football if you think that's the case.  Spain was the one game in which we were humiliated.  Against Croatia, although they were undoubtedly the better team, the game hinged on two decisions, the one to allow their second goal despite the offside and the foul on Ward and the one not to award a stonewall penalty when Keane was taken down in the box.  Those decisions got the other way and we could have been looking at, an admitedly lucky, 2-2 draw.  I've seen teams play far worse and sneak something from games like that.

Against Italy the general concensus at the time was that it was an improved performance and we were in the game until Shay had his brain fart and dropped the ball out for the corner they scored from.  Despite losing 2-0 in a dead rubber I think we put up a better performance against Italy than England did in their nil all draw for example.

Yes, we looked bereft of ideas and lacked a cutting edge.  We also looked to be carrying injuries on our best players in qualoification with Given, Dunne and O'Shea all below par fitness wide.  But, as I said at the time if people think that by putting lads such as Hoolahan who took till he was 29 to reach the Premier League or the likes of Clark, Pilkington etc who had less then a seasons worth of top level experience in would have made a blind nit of difference against the quality we had to play then they need their heads checked.  The way people go on you'd swear we were leaving Messi at home.  Seems that a players ability gets multiplied exponentially every game he doesn't play for Ireland.

Would some of you honestly had been happier if we hadn't qualified, serious question?


Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 21 Aug 2012 at 3:04pm