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Robbie Keane
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I am MALDING

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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2021 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

In recent years it has become binary, but everything is political in its truest sense. Every action we take or make is based on either or own norm and values, those imposed on us by society and government and our feelings in doing them. I agree it has become bizarrely binary in recent years, to the point where liberalism and socialism keep being flung in together, much to my chagrin, but everything is political; but politics isn't everything!

Thats a very interesting and compelling way of looking at it, tbh.
I have spent far too long thinking about this sort of thing. I don't think there's anything I do that isn't political. It may not be party political, overtly political or based on any ideology, but the reasons are there. Unless you have managed to remove yourself from society, with that in itself being a hugely political act, then it is the same for everyone!
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Roy Keane
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Points: 10641 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2021 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Correct. Dubai was my moment of realisation that Celtic are as much of a franchise as the EPL teams. The level of arrogance involved was a disgrace. 
What were they trying to say to the community that makes up their fantasy there? Similarly with the continued attitude to the victims of security abuse at Celtic. It's a disgrace. The club is run for a group of old Tories to make a few quid and nothing else. It's like supporting Dyson.

The Sutton article that Tony shared is unbelievable. The most bizarre one is the rhetorical question about the Government stopping the Dubai trip. That is a Catch 22 as it is ripe for a narrative i.e. "you let them go, and are now blaming them?". In real terms, what could the Government do? Pass legislation (which would probably be impugnable anyway)? Arrive at the airport and frogmarch them back to Parkhead? In those situations, Celtic would also be able to claim victimisation in those situations too.

Lots and lots of finger pointing at other sports and teams. And a number of non-comparisons (Scotland's team in a huddle etc). I'm not sure what the end game is here, but the fact that they keep returning to this incident when it was such a PR disaster demonstrates how arrogant they can be.

And in truth, this is what bugged me about Tony's posts the other day. He initially pre-judged it, and then when Rangers actually took appropriate steps, dismissed it. A far cry from the Dubai outing, and the criticism which was met with cries of hypocrisy.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Correct. Dubai was my moment of realisation that Celtic are as much of a franchise as the EPL teams. The level of arrogance involved was a disgrace. 
What were they trying to say to the community that makes up their fantasy there? Similarly with the continued attitude to the victims of security abuse at Celtic. It's a disgrace. The club is run for a group of old Tories to make a few quid and nothing else. It's like supporting Dyson.

The Sutton article that Tony shared is unbelievable. The most bizarre one is the rhetorical question about the Government stopping the Dubai trip. That is a Catch 22 as it is ripe for a narrative i.e. "you let them go, and are now blaming them?". In real terms, what could the Government do? Pass legislation (which would probably be impugnable anyway)? Arrive at the airport and frogmarch them back to Parkhead? In those situations, Celtic would also be able to claim victimisation in those situations too.

Lots and lots of finger pointing at other sports and teams. And a number of non-comparisons (Scotland's team in a huddle etc). I'm not sure what the end game is here, but the fact that they keep returning to this incident when it was such a PR disaster demonstrates how arrogant they can be.

And in truth, this is what bugged me about Tony's posts the other day. He initially pre-judged it, and then when Rangers actually took appropriate steps, dismissed it. A far cry from the Dubai outing, and the criticism which was met with cries of hypocrisy.
I agree. The problem with Sutton here is that he is very good friends with Lennon, if anybody else was Celtic manager his attitude would be very different. 
I meant fanbase above too, not fantasy. 
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I agree. The problem with Sutton here is that he is very good friends with Lennon, if anybody else was Celtic manager his attitude would be very different. 
I meant fanbase above too, not fantasy. 

I cant help but feel the slight wagon-circling coming from Celtic is with a view to generate a narrative about the Ten-in-a-row being lost (or at least all but lost). And also, I feel if it was a different manager, the attitude may have been different. Some may have knocked the trip on the head, in the first place. Others may have taken the South Park, "I misinterpreted the rules" approach. Not only did Lennon go another way, he truly believes that they are not the problem here.
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Robbie Keane
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The problem is that Lennon is the manager because he will do as the board says without any question and that includes Dubai! Then Sutton, and others, won't criticise Lennon, which the board take as a form of acceptance of the whole situation
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Paul McGrath
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https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2021/02/17/an-inconvenient-court-date-looms-for-the-sevco-high-command/
The latest, enjoy
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Roy Keane
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I'm still unsure if there is much connection between the board and Lennon in terms of the reaction to the Dubai trip. To me, it always seemed like a bit of a solo run, because if it was discussed, I don't think such a strategy would have been employed. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I'm still unsure if there is much connection between the board and Lennon in terms of the reaction to the Dubai trip. To me, it always seemed like a bit of a solo run, because if it was discussed, I don't think such a strategy would have been employed. 
Lennon got the job, and is still in the job, solely because he will not criticise those above him. Those above him booked and paid for the trip and that is why Lawwell gave a mealymouthed apology. Regardless of how, the fact such a strategy was employed, and then defended, is f**king farcical!
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Roy Keane
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Its unbelievable, but it plays into the idea that Celtic do see themselves as exceptional. There are a few "holier than thou" clubs out there, and Celtic would form part of that club. As such, it becomes rather difficult to see the wood from the trees, and it creates a narrative which is exculpatory in nature. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Its unbelievable, but it plays into the idea that Celtic do see themselves as exceptional. There are a few "holier than thou" clubs out there, and Celtic would form part of that club. As such, it becomes rather difficult to see the wood from the trees, and it creates a narrative which is exculpatory in nature. 
I think I know what you mean, but the club has an amazing history and is one of the great stories in football, regardless of what you think of them personally. Unfortunately, the PLC has hijacked that in such a way that muddies the waters.
I am obviously biased, I love Celtic Football Club, but it is gutting to see Celtic PLC show such disregard for people who had their lives destroyed by those representing the club in the past and though an arrogant disregard for a worldwide pandemic.
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Ray Houghton
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Tony's thread been ruined by sensible discourse Thumbs Down
It would damage this forums' reputation
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Roy Keane
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And the difficulty in this case is that Lennon is a very well regarded (and rightly so) playing legend, and is undoubtedly keen on the best interests as Celtic. As such, he might also be seen as representative of the "Club" in its ethereal sense rather than the commercial on (a concept worth explaining to the likes of Macgiollabhain and others when they insist on re-using the "Sevco" thing). And is representative more than a manager who might have no previous connection to Celtic. As such, if Lennon believes in this exceptionalism, it perhaps generates the belief that in this case Celtic are being wronged in relation to the Dubai trip. 
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

And the difficulty in this case is that Lennon is a very well regarded (and rightly so) playing legend, and is undoubtedly keen on the best interests as Celtic. As such, he might also be seen as representative of the "Club" in its ethereal sense rather than the commercial on (a concept worth explaining to the likes of Macgiollabhain and others when they insist on re-using the "Sevco" thing). And is representative more than a manager who might have no previous connection to Celtic. As such, if Lennon believes in this exceptionalism, it perhaps generates the belief that in this case Celtic are being wronged in relation to the Dubai trip. 
I'm not sure he has the best interests of Celtic at heart here. He knows that whatever job he gets after this will be downwards, so stepping down would cost him personally. I think if he did care he would have realised that. Maybe it's more of a reflection on the cynicism of modern football than on him, in this case, but that's certainly how fans see it. I genuinely think that Lennon might be the first former manager not to be welcomed back to Celtic Park by the fans. That isn't solely down to results.

Most Celtic fans have no time for Phil Mc Four Names. Tones is the only person I have seen push him seriously anywhere, which gives credence to the possibility that he is actually a wum!
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Roy Keane
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When Tony said "enjoy" when providing the link, I couldn't help but have a little chuckle.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

When Tony said "enjoy" when providing the link, I couldn't help but have a little chuckle.
I assume that's part of the joke? Tones is on a Celtic forum I was on, haven't been on since Dubai, and nobody has any interest in Phil there either!
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Roy Keane
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Rangers 4-0 up right now. Apparently they are the better team in this game.
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Robbie Keane
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I see the child edited the thread title back Embarrassed ffs LOL
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Roy Keane
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Its not even properly accurate. Sure, it was a bit of a joke in 2012, but now its a bit ridiculous, especially as it has been changed.
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