The Man City Thread*******

If you are going to exposure your ignorance on a topic, why not do it on an internet forum for everyone to see. 

I can understand what you are getting at, it has been used with justification in far bigger issues than this, but the opposite argument is that they can start saying it about anything at all that is disparaging about Liverpool FC or their fans and that seems to be the case here. Terrace culture is supposed to be tribal and a bit nasty, it is what has made football fun for a long time. We can all agree that it is better that the sinister  elements have been removed, especially the racism and the more excessive and widespread violence, but in many ways the baby was thrown out with the bathwater.  

This song isn't demeaning people for any reason that can be deemed unacceptable. It isn't homophobic, racist, misogynistic or bigoted. Is it in bad taste? Absolutely. The funniest chants are either in bad taste, extremely silly or both. The lyrics of this aren't funny, or at least I don't think are, I feel  that sort of caustic wit seems to have been lost on the terraces, but they are in no more bad taste than hundreds of other songs sung every week. Look at the words:

The words that appear to be causing most consternation are 'battered' and 'victims'. The first one is in the bad taste I referred to earlier, but it clearly relates to the trouble in Kiev and has as much to do with Sean Cox as it does to Heysel or the Toxteth riots. There are plenty of football chants that celebrate fighting and taking ends and all that nonsense, but the first time it is ok to  get upset about it is when football players, most of who struggle with the English language, as well as those from abroad, sing it? Maybe we do need to look at these songs and their impact on society, but again I would question the reasoning and timing.

The word 'victims' probably doesn't need an explanation, seeing as Liverpool fans seem to have conformed to stereotype here! They fact they keep conforming to that stereotype means they will continue to be called it. Never show weakness in the playground. 

Let's be clear, Hillsborough is not something to be mocked or laughed at, it was an example of state sponsored manslaughter and showed working-class Britain exactly what Thatcher's government thought of it and I can understand how sensitive it is for Liverpool fans and Merseyside in general, but not every piece of mockery of Liverpool supporters is related to Hillsborough. The term 'victim' when originally being used by opposition fans to mock Liverpool is very likely to have had those implications, but there is many other uses of it and reasons for it that are far more complex. There is an image of Liverpool in England as a city that is always crying about injustice, something that I actually  admire its people for, but football fans are not known for wanting to be culturally sensitive and emotionally appropriate to such sensibilities. I wouldn't say Liverpool fans are 'victims', or mock them for it, even if I don't like them, but I wouldn't accuse those that do of insulting Hillsborough or mocking innocent deaths.

Songs about Hillsborough did not start in 2012. Songs portraying Liverpool fans as "victims" didn't start in 2012. 

 

I think the song was - "always the victim its never your fault", sang by Man United fans against Liverpool after the Suarez-Evra incident

 

Another one from United fans is - the Sun was right, you're murderers. Now that one is nasty

 

 

And he's a Manchester City supporter, so his views can't simply be dismissed in a Trump-like manner by other Manchester City supporters, at least not credibly so - Man City supporters will of course vilify one of their own for telling some uncomfortable truths, just as Rangers supporters vilify Graham Spiers if he tells a few truths about their consistent despicable behaviour or Celtic supporters vilify Pat Nevin or anybody else who puts their head above the parapet to point point out that some things that are sung are not healthy.

One of Manchester City's excuses was that "this song has been sung all season by supporters". So fooking what?

Donald Findlay had to resign from the Rangers board after being caught singing The Sash in 1999. Rangers supporters sing The Sash to this day. 

Should Findlay therefore not have resigned?

Clearly, according to Manchester City, supporters, the answer is, no he shouldn't have.

There's zero self awareness or critical thinking at play here among Man City the club itself or its supporters. It's an institutional closing of ranks a la the Catholic Church in this country or Donald Trump and US Republicans. It reflects terribly on them. It's pathetic.

Online discourse about football has become increasingly toxic, almost like US politics. There's such a horrible, sick undertone to a lot of it and this story is a parable for our times.

For a so called working class sport, I find a lot of the discourse, especially in relation to anti-Liverpool chants or other anti-Liverpool speech, to be rooted in horrible far right politics. "Victims", mocking the brain damaged, "get a job" etc. 

These are far right political ideologies redolent of actual Nazi times, and football is infested with this sh*t. 

I suppose the myopic "we're perfect, everybody else is a disgrace" views of football supporters like Manchester City's is sadly reflective of the predominant toxic culture in society now.

It is, by definition. 

The word "victims" has been sarcastically used for decades to vilify the dead of Hillsborough and to tar those who remain as criminals, despite Liverpool supporters being precisely 0% to blame for the disaster.

You can't use the word "victims" about Liverpool and not dig up the ghosts of the scandalous vilification of all those at Hillsborough. 

It's also a deliberate stereotype used to vilify the whole of the city of Liverpool, not just the club.

There's a reason why some things are off limits. 

You can't go around portraying Jews as money grabbers because that sterotype was used to commit the worst outrage in human history against the Jewish people. 

Yet people from Scotland and Cavan are routinely the butt of jokes about them being mean or money grabbers and nobody bats an eyelid, because that stereotype hasn't been used to commit a genocide against either of those peoples.