The Arsenal thread

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 farfar wrote:

 greengooner wrote:

Interesting reading here lads, despite me not agreeing with much of your arguments!! No, it wasn't a rehashed article, and the point about Rice was that there is nobody at Arsenal who is either allowed or capable of questioning the manager. I know Rice has retired. it's just I thought he had retired about 10 seasons ago, given his lack of anything to do with anything when sitting on the bench!! 
OK,

I suppose in the first instance it depends upon where you set your sights as an Arsenal Fan. What defines progress or success in the main.

We USED to compete for the Premier league.  We won it a few times, until our great players left or were let go too soon by Arsene. With whom did Arsene replace them? Not other great players, that's for sure. 

Both of you referred to us overhauling Spurs last season as being as an achievement of some note. Really?  Forgive me if I think that Arsenal having to clamber over a collapsing Spurs is frankly not good enough from an Arsenal squad whcih has the 3rd largest wage bill in the Premiership. 

You both referred to the fact that he doesn't have money to spend on players. Since when? IIRC, Arsene has said he has lots of money to spend on players but will only buy "quality, quality players". So is he lying or is the board? Every season, he has money to spend, and as you rightly pointed out waited FAR too long last season to plug the gaping holes in the team. 

Next - on to the dressing room. It doesn't have to be a bitchfest when one loses a dressing room. I believe the ambitious players (some say greed and ambition are the same thing..!!) just don't believe him any more - that to me is losing the dressing room as well. 

If Cesc, Nasri, Adebayor, Diarra, Henry,  Cole, and possibly RVP have left to win things, why didn't they stay with Arsene, who promises us every year that we will "win things" until round about March when this mantra changes to "competing with every drop of our blood" to challenge for a champions league place. 

Those of us who remember the invincibles know that Arsene let too many of them go far too soon, in pursuit of his utterly failed "project Youth"  - Pires, Freddy, Lauren for instance should have been kept for longer. Would he listen - nope - Arsene's way or the highway. That's a dangerous and ultimately damning situation for any club to be in.  With whom did Arsenal replace those 3? 

As a parallel, Giggs and Scholes have been kept for their experience. Who does Arsene keep on? 

The Ox
I had been watching this guys progress from 3 years ago via another Arsenal mailing list so I was delighted when he signed.  (Bit patronising of you to assume I don't/didnt want youth in the team!!)  I want quality, whether they're 16, 26 or 36. If Arsene truly knows, then he knows which players he needs. So why are they not arriving, and why are the great ones departing?

Someone said the Ox was huffing and puffing at the Man U game????? Really??? So whom did Arsene Bring on to replace the guy who had changed that game - Andre Arhsavin!!!!! Mr. Fitness himself..!! You couldn't make it up. Watch the video of the game if you don't believe me..!!

Injuries.
Please, don't embarrass yourself with this argument. Every club plays the same number of games, more or less. However, we win the league EVERY season with the most injuries - check out www.physioroom.com if you dont believe me..!! What does that tell you? Either our conditioning regime or backup medical team sucks, and Arsene is responsible in this area. I remember Van Persie being treated with horse placenta not so long ago, whcih kept him out for how many additional months?

Incidentally, it's just a bizarre co-incidence that RVPs fittest (and only fully fit season for Arsenal) season arrives the season before he intimates he wants to leave Arsenal.  

Arsene is incapable of recognising that the football world has moved on and as such, just like Trappatoni, needs to move aside if Arsenal are to clamber BACK to the top table in world Football.

For instance, how have our CL performances been since Paris - the same, better, or worse?
How has our Premiership form been in the last number of seasons since the Invincibles? - the same, better, or worse?

Arsenal used to win things. All things being the same, would you put money on Arsenal to win the Prem this season? Or the CL? Or even the FA Cup. Have we invested enough to compete at the top again?

I see us becoming like Liverpool if we continue - a very big club, with very little ambition from the board and a manager who is on huge money, happy to take it, and protect the decsions of the board.

One mentioned that we were unlucky not to win a Trophy in 2010/2011??? Huh????
We threw it away. do you not remember the goal which gave it to Birmingham? Have either Kocielny or Szec become better players since then? Have a look at Szec's end of season if you like. Also, Koc is a continual accident waiting to happen, much and all as he shows great passion. He is found out against good players, every time.

I go back to my original point here. many Arsenal fans are happy to continue along this slow gradual decline into mediocrity, which is where we currently are heading. I'm not, as I fully believe Arsenal have the infrastructure, the money and the setup to compete with anyone at any time. 

someone asked for other managers - good question.  For the money Arsene is on, there are many who whould leap at the job.  I'll have a think about a replacement, but it's not going to happen as the board have a manager who is happy with them, and vice versa. 

You see the thing I don't agree with you on is you put the blame pretty much solely on Wenger's shoulders. I agree with a lot of your post but I think the blame lies elsewhere.

I don't think it is any coincidence that Arsenal have not won any trophies since the move in to the Emirates. It was really around that point that a change in policy had to take place. In order to pay back the stadium debt Arsenal had to start producing more players from the academy to be introduced in to the team as they could not afford to pay large fee's due to restrictions from the stadium. Basically Arsenal replaced the likes of Vieira through youth policy and bargain buys.

As for your question who is lying about having money to spend. Well I put up an article early with quotes from Wenger saying he needs to make between 15-20 million a year. so I think that answers the question. I know Wenger has said before that he does have money to spend but the stats would suggest other wise. He is hardly not spending money for the sake of it. It does not reflect well on any kind of business/ club especially a big club like Arsenal if the manager says he has no money to spend. Arsenal fans know that one of the richest men in Russia holds 30% of the club. If Wenger was to say he has no money it would put huge pressure on the current owner and board to sell the club which is exactly what they don't want.

Agree with the point about the medical team as it is an absolute joke the amount of injuries there are and there are an awful lot of misdiagnoses like Wilshere's last year who was meant to be out for a couple of weeks.

Don't see how the football world has moved on from Wenger. After the invincibles he bought small technical players to try and pass teams to death in the middle of the pitch. And one of the best teams that the world have ever seen are yes that kind of exact player. It just has not worked in the PL unfortunately. While Trap on the other hand is the exact opposite.

Lets not kid ourselves we were never exactly great in the champions league and we did reach another semi-final since then and have been un lucky to draw Barcelona twice in that time so seasonal results in the champions league have not fluctuated too much.

I would love to see what Arsene could do with the money Liverpool's owners threw at Dalgleish.

You can't honestly say Koscielny has not improved since the Carling cup defeat. He was excellent this year and possibly Arsenal's 2nd best player behind RVP. Stats wise Koscielny got in the PL team of the year last season and as for found out against good players every time .... I suppose Messi is very average and he got man of the match for France against Spain in his only appearence in the Euro's

Don't know any Arsenal fans happy to see them fall into decline hence they want a change of board with money invested into the club. Money should now be available due to most of the debt being payed off yet season ticket prices rise nearly every year and very little of it goes to transfers.

This. (As well as my previous post)

Edited by MJD - 06 Jul 2012 at 5:41pm