Barcelona

Can't help thinking there are parallels with 1916 here.

Edited by newrynyuk - 04 Oct 2017 at 3:52pm

*wrong thread

Edited by AnCearrbhach - 04 Oct 2017 at 4:00pm

pre Madonna wrote: SuperDave84 wrote: That's what the EU have said anyway. I don't know where I stand on Catalan independence. What's the logical distinction between Catalan nationalists and the Lega Nord? I don't see one. Spain is a federation of different ethno-linguistic subdivisions just as much Italy is with its 20 regions. There are plenty of Sicilians who can barely understand a word that a Venetia or Ligurian says, and vice versa. Yet I doubt most of those here in favour of Catalan separatism would be in favour of Lega Nord's secession plan. It's the same deal: a rich part of the country has had enough with spongers elsewhere and wants its cake back, thank you very much. Just because the Catalans are leftists and the Lega Nord closer to fascists doesn't change much on the constitutional issue. I can't see a distinction between their constitutional positions and I don't really favour either. There is a lot of valid points there and even if I am predisposed to be sympathetic to the Catalan demands for independence, those points certainly temper those sympathies. However, I think there is one major difference between the two and that is that Catalunya has always seen itself has a country and indeed has been a country, albeit in the distant past, which is slightly different to the Lega Nord which is a union of former states who want to break away for solely economic reasons.  Nonetheless, your points are valid. What isn't in dispute, however, is how the Spanish Government, police and even the King have reacted to this have made a very difficult mess to clean up and poured petrol on what was no more than a spark.

Edited by MC Hammered - 04 Oct 2017 at 4:17pm

Every year Catalonia hands over €13bn more than it receives in federal funding. Incidentally it's a similar sum that we're due from Apple, a sum that would pay for our health system for an entire year.

Now bare in mind both Ireland and Catalonia have similar populations, it really highlights the staggering amount of money they are handing over to Madrid every year.

colemanY2K wrote: Every year Catalonia hands over €13bn more than it receives in federal funding. Incidentally it's a similar sum that we're due from Apple, a sum that would pay for our health system for an entire year. Now bare in mind both Ireland and Catalonia have similar populations, it really highlights the staggering amount of money they are handing over to Madrid every year.

And throw in that average wage in Catalonia is probably 20-30% lower than Ireland.

pre Madonna wrote: SuperDave84 wrote: That's what the EU have said anyway. I don't know where I stand on Catalan independence. What's the logical distinction between Catalan nationalists and the Lega Nord? I don't see one. Spain is a federation of different ethno-linguistic subdivisions just as much Italy is with its 20 regions. There are plenty of Sicilians who can barely understand a word that a Venetia or Ligurian says, and vice versa. Yet I doubt most of those here in favour of Catalan separatism would be in favour of Lega Nord's secession plan. It's the same deal: a rich part of the country has had enough with spongers elsewhere and wants its cake back, thank you very much. Just because the Catalans are leftists and the Lega Nord closer to fascists doesn't change much on the constitutional issue. I can't see a distinction between their constitutional positions and I don't really favour either. There is a lot of valid points there and even if I am predisposed to be sympathetic to the Catalan demands for independence, those points certainly temper those sympathies. However, I think there is one major difference between the two and that is that Catalunya has always seen itself has a country and indeed has been a country, albeit in the distant past, which is slightly different to the Lega Nord which is a union of former states who want to break away for solely economic reasons.  Nonetheless, your points are valid. What isn't in dispute, however, is how the Spanish Government, police and even the King have reacted to this have made a very difficult mess to clean up and poured petrol on what was no more than a spark.

Spain has been a united country for about 450 odd years (and Catalunya has been united with Castille for longer) with fairly large amounts of population transfer. Italy was a collection of warring states until about 150 years ago.

I'm not denying that Catalunya sees itself as a nation more than the north of Italy does but both have gained plenty from being part of a broader union and both want out now for seemingly economic reasons. At least, that seems to have been the first motivation for a lot of Catalans, or at least a large part of it. I doubt there'd be a secession movement if they were poorer than the rest of Spain and in receipt of funds... and that answers the question for me.

None of that makes the Spanish response less than idiotic and I definitely agree with that. I have no idea what the King was at. If his speech was at the behest of Rajoy and with his instruction, that's an appalling abuse by Rajoy and the King should have stood up to him; if the speech was at the King's own urging, he has fundamentally politicised the position of King in a constitutional monarchy, which is equally appalling. His father would never have made a speech like that in a situation like this, that's for sure.

Funny spoke to a Spanish lad today who was born in Barcelona and he is very pro to remain , now cut a very long story short he blames the local councils taking bribes here there and everywhere . These guys are going down ( so he said ) but call independence and these guys walk free , hey or so he says .

I live in Espana. I have for many years now, I'm engaged to a Spanish woman and i speak fluent Spanish. 

seanyshuffler wrote: TioPepe wrote: I live in Espana. I have for many years now, I'm engaged to a Spanish woman and i speak fluent Spanish.  Barcelona, will not get independence. I was at a pro Catalonian rally last night totally by accident while walking the dogs in the town square there is certainly support for the region in other areas of the country. The Spanish government ought to be ashamed of themselves, particularly how they have handled the entire event. A 42% turnout isn't anywhere good enough to declare independence either. Seeing our entire street with flags outside their houses, and apartments for entire streets with the la Rojigualda has certainly been strange to see daily. Originally from Down or Tyrone is it?

so obvious!

Byrner must be still banned from the "whatever" section.