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Conor Hourihane
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 

Goals and assists are what influence results we have very little Of those in our team we need to get players with these attributes into the team.

He’s not with villa because he lacks pace, they brought in Barkley who is a better player and wasn’t prepared to be a sub seeing no game time he wants to play.
Had villa been more inclined to use the bench more he would still be there regularly villa might not make a change until after the 80th minute 
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I've seen Hourihane play great in games he didn't score/assist in and people still call him anonymous because the only thing they have the attention span to notice is goals and assists.
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Kenny seems to be settling on 4-2-3-1 but Hourihane's compatibility seems to be incredibly niche. 4-3-3 only way to get him in.

He can't play as the deep lying midfielder as his mobility, awareness and general abdication of responsibility in this role won't cut it. Sorry to mention the war, but Jesus Declan Rice is literally the very player we need. A defence minded midfielder who breaks up play but is extremely comfortable on the ball and has the ability to instigate attacks from our third.

looking across all our midfield options, Josh Cullen is the only one who seems to have that balance between being defence and attack minded, while being a deep lying midfielder. Doing very well at Anderlecht before getting injured so we'll see.

Back to Conor. Assuming he had Cullen sitting behind him and he was in a two with a Knight or Molumby. This may work. Conor needs to be surrounded by energy and tenacity (exactly what he doesn't have) No matter what, Hourihane will only work if he has legs behind him and beside him in midfield. 

Even at that it seems like a lot of work in order to get somebody into a team who's only prone to "moments". Either way, Conor needs to be moved further up the pitch to justify his presence.

Kenny's whole philosophy with Ireland seems to be based around high energy, especially in the final third which is what rules out Hourihane. but the problem we've had in recent games is playing the likes of Jeff in the number 10 role who has loads of energy, might win back the ball but then hasn't a clue what to do with it when he gets it.
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

I've seen Hourihane play great in games he didn't score/assist in and people still call him anonymous because the only thing they have the attention span to notice is goals and assists.
He’s playing for Swansea  for a reason!


Edited by King_Kenny - 06 Feb 2021 at 2:14pm
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Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 

Goals and assists are what influence results we have very little Of those in our team we need to get players with these attributes into the team.

He’s not with villa because he lacks pace, they brought in Barkley who is a better player and wasn’t prepared to be a sub seeing no game time he wants to play.
Had villa been more inclined to use the bench more he would still be there regularly villa might not make a change until after the 80th minute 

I agree with most of that but he didn't become surpluse to villa just because of pace...  Hes scored 23 goals in 132 games for villa, knight ha 8 goals in 55 for Derby. Taking into account that Knight doesn't take set pieces and Brady takes them for ireland then knight offers the better goal threat for ireland.

Knight then offers much needed energy in the ireland midfield and covers so much ground. He offers pace and can carry the ball forward. 

I'm not suggesting knight is the answer to irelands problems, I'm just saying he's a better option than hourihane. 

Don't get me wrong, if hourihane plays and scores, ill be cheering just as much as you. 
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He's not good enough for Ireland or for Villa. 
Hides when the going gets tough and gives the ball away easily too often.
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.


Edited by horsebox - 06 Feb 2021 at 2:20pm
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

He's not good enough for Ireland or for Villa. 
Hides when the going gets tough and gives the ball away easily too often.


Rubbish he is better than alternatives we can’t just magic better replacements.
( obviously the likes of McCarty, Hendrick and brady are on  par With him or better) 



Edited by Fruice - 06 Feb 2021 at 3:08pm
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 

Goals and assists are what influence results we have very little Of those in our team we need to get players with these attributes into the team.

He’s not with villa because he lacks pace, they brought in Barkley who is a better player and wasn’t prepared to be a sub seeing no game time he wants to play.
Had villa been more inclined to use the bench more he would still be there regularly villa might not make a change until after the 80th minute 

I agree with most of that but he didn't become surpluse to villa just because of pace...  Hes scored 23 goals in 132 games for villa, knight ha 8 goals in 55 for Derby. Taking into account that Knight doesn't take set pieces and Brady takes them for ireland then knight offers the better goal threat for ireland.

Knight then offers much needed energy in the ireland midfield and covers so much ground. He offers pace and can carry the ball forward. 

I'm not suggesting knight is the answer to irelands problems, I'm just saying he's a better option than hourihane. 

Don't get me wrong, if hourihane plays and scores, ill be cheering just as much as you. 

Just cause knight doesn’t score from set pieces doesn’t mean you can discount Conor can.
You are assuming Brady will play and that Conor won’t take the set pieces even if he does.( the consensus is that Brady’s set pieces leave a lot to be desired)
Knight has zero assists Conor has over 20.

From me for know Conor is more in form than Knight and more of a threat overall than knight 
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2021 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 

Goals and assists are what influence results we have very little Of those in our team we need to get players with these attributes into the team.

He’s not with villa because he lacks pace, they brought in Barkley who is a better player and wasn’t prepared to be a sub seeing no game time he wants to play.
Had villa been more inclined to use the bench more he would still be there regularly villa might not make a change until after the 80th minute 

I agree with most of that but he didn't become surpluse to villa just because of pace...  Hes scored 23 goals in 132 games for villa, knight ha 8 goals in 55 for Derby. Taking into account that Knight doesn't take set pieces and Brady takes them for ireland then knight offers the better goal threat for ireland.

Knight then offers much needed energy in the ireland midfield and covers so much ground. He offers pace and can carry the ball forward. 

I'm not suggesting knight is the answer to irelands problems, I'm just saying he's a better option than hourihane. 

Don't get me wrong, if hourihane plays and scores, ill be cheering just as much as you. 

Just cause knight doesn’t score from set pieces doesn’t mean you can discount Conor can.
You are assuming Brady will play and that Conor won’t take the set pieces even if he does.( the consensus is that Brady’s set pieces leave a lot to be desired)
Knight has zero assists Conor has over 20.

From me for know Conor is more in form than Knight and more of a threat overall than knight 


Fair enough, so applying your logic, I guess we need to start Scott Hogan who scored 10 in 35 games for Birmingham and James Collins who has 64 in 155 games up front for Luton. 
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 

Goals and assists are what influence results we have very little Of those in our team we need to get players with these attributes into the team.

He’s not with villa because he lacks pace, they brought in Barkley who is a better player and wasn’t prepared to be a sub seeing no game time he wants to play.
Had villa been more inclined to use the bench more he would still be there regularly villa might not make a change until after the 80th minute 

I agree with most of that but he didn't become surpluse to villa just because of pace...  Hes scored 23 goals in 132 games for villa, knight ha 8 goals in 55 for Derby. Taking into account that Knight doesn't take set pieces and Brady takes them for ireland then knight offers the better goal threat for ireland.

Knight then offers much needed energy in the ireland midfield and covers so much ground. He offers pace and can carry the ball forward. 

I'm not suggesting knight is the answer to irelands problems, I'm just saying he's a better option than hourihane. 

Don't get me wrong, if hourihane plays and scores, ill be cheering just as much as you. 

Just cause knight doesn’t score from set pieces doesn’t mean you can discount Conor can.
You are assuming Brady will play and that Conor won’t take the set pieces even if he does.( the consensus is that Brady’s set pieces leave a lot to be desired)
Knight has zero assists Conor has over 20.

From me for know Conor is more in form than Knight and more of a threat overall than knight 


Fair enough, so applying your logic, I guess we need to start Scott Hogan who scored 10 in 35 games for Birmingham and James Collins who has 64 in 155 games up front for Luton. 

No that’s not true.
firstly they are playing at a lower level than the other players in their positions.( but there is a case to have them in the squad over McGuire and the likes if they are performing better)
Secondly I based the comparison of knight and Hourihane on this season alone to base picking the team on form.
It wad you who elongated the stats range between knight and hourihane while never given any leverage to the fact the hourihane had part of his stats at higher level than knight.




Edited by Fruice - 06 Feb 2021 at 4:08pm
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Why is it Conor and Knight.   Do you know him.  Bias ? 

It's like the people who say mick was great and Kenny is terrible 
AKA pedantic kunt
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Or Gerry....Shocked
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Why is it Conor and Knight.   Do you know him.  Bias ? 

It's like the people who say mick was great and Kenny is terrible 
Does it matter?
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While the debate over Hourihane's inclusion is a valid one. At the moment it's a much of a muchness. My main concern is the fact that nobody from our regular starters is in any decent form at all. Between the poor momentum of the Irish team so far and the current form of the vast majority of the squad, it's really worrying going into next month.
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Fruice, your argument based on goals and assists is far too simplistic. There's a reason why Hourihane's record at club level is decent but he rarely contributes at international level. We need more drive in midfield to allow our attacking players to have chances in the first place, he doesn't provide any. Now that might mean dropping Hendrick rather than Hourihane, but either way it's not as simple as Hourihane gets goals and assists at club level so is an automatic starter as you're suggesting.
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When you look at the young players too. 

Connolly is still our best option but not finishing chances or games.

Masterson off injured today 

Molumby subbed and team losing
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

When you look at the young players too. 

Connolly is still our best option but not finishing chances or games.

Masterson off injured today 

Molumby subbed and team losing



To be fair Molumby and Connolly both seemed to play well. Masterson not a factor for the senior team at the moment - and may never reach that level, who knows.
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