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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Playing Hourihane just in behind the strikers does help him. If he’s playing we should play him just off the striker too. His goal getting ability an asset. 

They are a ball playing side who are going to dominate a lot of Championship teams which suits Hourihane. He’s deadly in that scenario it’s when you play superior teams and have to forego possession he doesn’t have the legs and gets runover. He shouldn’t be near the team against Portugal or Serbia for example as we may have to chase them a bit. He goes “missing” as they say.

Very simple Aston Villa are a side looking to push into the top half and Hourihane is a rotation/bench player for a team of that calibre. He was a huge asset for a bottom 6 PL club in certain scenarios like he was for Villa last year. They wouldn’t have stayed up without him. 

He’s probably even too good for Championship. It was an all merciful signing by Swansea to pull off. I suspect if they go up which they look like they might be will sign there permanently. 

Hourihane is not a creative player, he's a dead ball specialist and has a great shot. Playing him in behind the forwards would do very little. 

The further up the pitch you go the more creative you need to be. Hes not good in tight areas with players closing him down. 

Hes had a fantastic start at Swansea but I wonder will Swansea fans be saying the same things they are about him now, in 20+ games. 

He does the opposite of that.

He's best position is behind the front 2 as he can score goals from there. He's a player that will have very little influence on the game and go missing for large periods, but will produce a moment of quality like the goal last night. 

Kenny for some odd reason deployed him in a more deeper position for Ireland and he was anonymous. 


He is a moments player. Never seen him dominate a game .
We are in dire need of a decent attacking midfielder 


Edited by Citizen - 06 Feb 2021 at 9:47am
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I love this a team that can hardly hit the target and people are prepared to scrap a player who has shown he can do it. 
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Good points around Hourihane, he is an elite ball striker but I don't think he is naturally athletic enough or good enough in tight spaces to exert dominance on full games. Having him and Hendrick in midfield together has been a recipe for disaster as they are both players who let the game pass them by.

When you see Hourihane do things like last night and some of the other goals he has scored in the last year or two it makes you think he should be the first name on the team sheet, but when given the chances he has not done much for Ireland. Tough call whether to start him in March or not, if he keeps playing like this for Swansea it will be hard not to, but a midfield of him, Hendrick and McCarthy wouldn't give me much confidence. 
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Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I love this a team that can hardly hit the target and people are prepared to scrap a player who has shown he can do it. 


The vast majority of comments prior to yours on this have not suggested scrap humor dismiss him.  More like a nuanced conversation of his best role and how we would get the best out of his talents and cover for his weaknesses.  

As Citizen said he is a moments player and that can be a luxury but then again in a team that has no moments at all it becomes a necessity.  There is a serious case to have him as our attacking midfielder as he will be in position to use his goal scoring abilities but there will be drawbacks to it too. 
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plenty of comments have suggested not international level championship is his level end of, wrong age etc.

His best position is deep lying midfielder in a team who is good on the ball.
He has a good range of passing( look at his pass for villas first goal in the playoff final) he also is willing to take the ball and gives it quickly these obviously look better as part of a team playing well.

His biggest assist is he has an eye for goal and his set piece delivery is brilliant( one of the main reasons villa stayed up)
These two assists really need to be exploited by Kenny.

His biggest problem for me is he isn’t the quickest so can get caught in a one vs one situation and can then foul more than he should.

He has his limitations but no more than any of our current midfielders.

He should start for us more often than not.

McCarthy Hendrick and Hourihane should be our first choice midfield.
But maybe away to Serbia Hourihane could lose out to the more legs of Molumby and be brought on a in the second half.
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He shouldn't start against Serbia as I believe we should going out with a more defensive team, and he's passenger most of the time. He'd be more suited to the game at home against Luxembourg.
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Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

plenty of comments have suggested not international level championship is his level end of, wrong age etc.

His best position is deep lying midfielder in a team who is good on the ball.
He has a good range of passing( look at his pass for villas first goal in the playoff final) he also is willing to take the ball and gives it quickly these obviously look better as part of a team playing well.

His biggest assist is he has an eye for goal and his set piece delivery is brilliant( one of the main reasons villa stayed up)
These two assists really need to be exploited by Kenny.

His biggest problem for me is he isn’t the quickest so can get caught in a one vs one situation and can then foul more than he should.

He has his limitations but no more than any of our current midfielders.

He should start for us more often than not.

McCarthy Hendrick and Hourihane should be our first choice midfield.
But maybe away to Serbia Hourihane could lose out to the more legs of Molumby and be brought on a in the second half.



I always though he had a great range of passing until I saw him play during the last few international breaks. Has a couple nice pings in a game, but he gives the ball away something else for a player who's supposed main asset is accuracy with the ball. I've never had confidence in him as a ball playing midfielder. In our heads we want him to be somebody like hoolahan, someone you're screaming for the other players to give the ball to. But he doesn't instill confidence that he's that outlet we need to get attacks going.

He doesn't have the guile or creativity to play a number 10. Not the specific number 10 that we need anyway. For Ireland anyway, he didn't have the consistency or bravery to continuously go searching for the ball from the back four and be that link while in a deeper role. 

Once again, going missing in games just isn't acceptable. The idea that himself and Hendrick have both gone missing in games is crazy stuff, and something that Kenny really needs to sort out. The midfield makes or breaks your team. Can't have players gone AWOL for long periods unless they're Messi. 
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The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.



So who is the alternative that does what he does and more?
Fact he was a main reason villa stayed up they got results when he played he directly influenced the results what is there to discount?


Edited by Fruice - 06 Feb 2021 at 12:05pm
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Does the fact our senior midfielders like Hourihane Hendrick and Brady to a certain extent can go missing as it’s put here only not further endorse going to a back 5. 

5 at the back would put less pressure on our defence in this scenario. 

Hourihane mightn’t have the creative spark of a top No.10 but he has goals in him as he has proven. 

One thing that was noticeable was that our striker was often heavily isolated in games. Idah a young inexperienced striker suffered from this. 




Edited by kevin100 - 06 Feb 2021 at 12:13pm
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

He shouldn't start against Serbia as I believe we should going out with a more defensive team, and he's passenger most of the time. He'd be more suited to the game at home against Luxembourg.

This is where I am also, am afraid.

What Hourihane is doing now in the Championship is commendable and if Knight or Molumby were doing it, we'd be screaming for them starting in Belgrade.
But the difference is they are far more mobile and aggressive and bring an urgency and pressure than Hourihane does not.

That he's a goal-threat cannot be underestimated but I'd argue so is Knight, and more.
Maybe we will find that we can play Hourihane OR Hendrick, just not both.

Regardless, am delighted for Hourihane and it's only good for Ireland that he is hitting form.
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Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Maybe we will find that we can play Hourihane OR Hendrick, just not both.

This is pretty much where I am on this as well. Hendrick and Hourihane as a central midfielder partnership for us has been a disaster to be honest. But they do both have individual aspects to their game that warrant them being in the squad. However neither can run a midfield in the way that we need someone to in our team.

You also have to factor in though that we need either Brady or Hourihane on the field at any given time for set pieces. Brady is often not a 90 minute player and is injured a lot as well, so Hourihane is still important to us in some ways.

Personally, if Brady was unavailable I would keep Hourihane in the team, drop Hendrick and play one of Knight or Molumby alongside Hendrick to give us more strength in the middle.

If Brady is available though I don't think we can start both him and Hourihane, it costs us too much in open play. In that case I would have Brady on the right of a front three (but with a free role to drift infield rather than as a winger) and I'd either go Hendrick plus one of Knight and Molumby or maybe even go the whole way and just start Knight and Molumby together in the middle - it's going to happen sooner or later anyway.
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Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.



So who is the alternative that does what he does and more?
Fact he was a main reason villa stayed up they got results when he played he directly influenced the results what is there to discount?

I have to disagree with you fruice, grealish is the reason villa stayed up not hourihane. I would agree that hourihane had a few important moments that contributed though.

In terms of alternatives I would say knight. Now will knight be better in the midfield. We dont know at this point. But what we do know is that hourihane has been luke warm in his 24 caps for ireland. 

I've seen hourihane play a lot of games with ireland and villa  and I feel I've seen enough to form an opinion. 

With knight, we've not seen a lot of him. He's getting glowing praise at Derby and being linked with premier league teams. When he did play for ireland I feel he was one of our best players. (Admittedly the bar is not high)

Will knight be better? Let's at least give him a shot
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.



So who is the alternative that does what he does and more?
Fact he was a main reason villa stayed up they got results when he played he directly influenced the results what is there to discount?

I have to disagree with you fruice, grealish is the reason villa stayed up not hourihane. I would agree that hourihane had a few important moments that contributed though.

In terms of alternatives I would say knight. Now will knight be better in the midfield. We dont know at this point. But what we do know is that hourihane has been luke warm in his 24 caps for ireland. 

I've seen hourihane play a lot of games with ireland and villa  and I feel I've seen enough to form an opinion. 

With knight, we've not seen a lot of him. He's getting glowing praise at Derby and being linked with premier league teams. When he did play for ireland I feel he was one of our best players. (Admittedly the bar is not high)

Will knight be better? Let's at least give him a shot



Of course Grealish was one of the main reasons villa stayed up but also was hourihane the facts are there.

Knight has got good reviews with a club 2 points above the drop zone in the championship.

Knight has 2 goals in 30 odd games 
Conor has 4 goals and an assist in shy of 10 games some in the premiership.

For me Ireland have to play the games in the moment not plan down the line.

So for me hourihane is currently ahead of Knight.

In 6 months time this could be completely different 
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.





The run-in last season was pretty much the only time Hourihane got a run of games for Villa in the PL and he was pivotal to them staying up. It's revisionism to say otherwise. The stats show their results are better with him in the team - so what are they losing exactly? Sure the man who replaced him, Ross Barkley, has been abysmal for 7 out of the last 8 games. And John McGinn seems to be guaranteed his place in the team despite offering nothing in terms of goals and assists [not saying that's primarily what he's there for, but point still stands].

He has 4 goals in 21 starts at PL level and 29 goals in 119 starts at Championship level. His goalscoring record is great by Irish standards and very good by any other metric.
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

The trade off is that hourihane is not a 90 minute player but can pop up with a goal (to be fair, his goalscoring record is not that great, i think the last three games have been outliers.)

His set pieces are great, however Brady has been taking them over him for ireland.

A lot of people have mentioned that he kept villa up with a few goals and his excellent set pieces. However they discount what villa have lost playing him for 90 mins.

I like hourihane but he's not mobile, he's slow, he's cant carry the ball forward  and he's not going to dominate a midfield for the team.



So who is the alternative that does what he does and more?
Fact he was a main reason villa stayed up they got results when he played he directly influenced the results what is there to discount?

I have to disagree with you fruice, grealish is the reason villa stayed up not hourihane. I would agree that hourihane had a few important moments that contributed though.

In terms of alternatives I would say knight. Now will knight be better in the midfield. We dont know at this point. But what we do know is that hourihane has been luke warm in his 24 caps for ireland. 

I've seen hourihane play a lot of games with ireland and villa  and I feel I've seen enough to form an opinion. 

With knight, we've not seen a lot of him. He's getting glowing praise at Derby and being linked with premier league teams. When he did play for ireland I feel he was one of our best players. (Admittedly the bar is not high)

Will knight be better? Let's at least give him a shot



Malfunctioning goal line technology is actually the reason Villa stayed up. 
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did someone say his best position is a deep lying midfielder and that his best asset is that he has an eye for a goal.  

Well those two things seem incompatible to me. You are not going to score many goals from right in front of the back four.  
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@fruice you're looking at 2 metrics, goals and assists and evaluating the player with the most as the better option. This is a reductionist argument.

I've seen hourihane get a goal in games in which he was anonymous throughout.

If hourihane was so vital for villa how can you explain him dropping down a league when he should be in the prime of his career? 


 
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