Mick McCarthy |
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Jebediah Springfield
Ronnie Whelan Joined: 09 Jan 2020 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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If we didn’t have hope....!
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Suffering weather-wise
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Nialler
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1490 |
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Point taken but I am only trying to point out the cycle and why its just better to cut ourselves adrift right away from Mick era. People are saying "but it would be a disaster start if Kenny failed to qualify"
He wont be thinking that way, he will be thinking its a great chance to get off to a great start and its two away games nobody expects us to get through really. Imagine having 7-8 U21's at a euros in the summer of 21. Some experience it would be but no... some weird we owe McCarthy something and lets have a last hurra for Glen Whelan instead. I just cant relate to that thinking one bit like. The FAI has to be ruthless here and show bollix making a tough decision early. the bonuses are real. 1.3 or 1.7 million leaving bonus I nearly puked reading the numbers. |
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Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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If we just applied Bricks logic, playing the games is something of a pointless exercise. How teams are ranked before a tournament is not used as a prediction as to where they will finish but rather a current standing to group teams based on a current snapshot. Mr Brick, frequently wrong but never in doubt. |
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tetsujin1979
Ray Houghton Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Status: Online Points: 4115 |
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Michael O'Neill would have been sacked from any other international team before the 2016 qualifiers - the win in the first qualifier against Hungary was only his second in the nineteen games he'd been in charge for at that stage, a thirty three month run that included losses to Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. The only other win was an admittedly impressive 1-0 victory against Russia, more than a year previously. The team had only scored three goals in the 12 months leading up to the same game in Budapest, two of them in the loss to Luxembourg.
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AonSceal19
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 30 Dec 2018 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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McCarthy was always supposed to be a short term appointment by the FAI’s own admission. They gave him a short term contract with the remit of qualifying for Euro 2020. Ireland were third seeds in the group but his objective was to qualify for Euro 2020 not to maintain the status quo and just finish 3rd above Georgia and Gibraltar. He has a very lucrative contract with an excessive wage in my opinion that he will never get again in his career. No sympathy from me with the delay of the euros. He decided to continue the tradition of negative anti football and he can die by the sword. Stephen Kenny on the other hand was always supposed to be a long term plan. As a result the immediate results of the team won’t be as important as it was for mick. I don’t expect us to qualify for the World Cup where you essentially have to be a top 13 team in UEFA which we are way off. However by 2024 I would be expecting us to be playing a brand of football that has been alien to us in the last decade with a lot of young new players.
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“Randolph sends it long…and Shane Long is in behind the German defence… Shane Long against Neuer…. 1-0!.. What a moment!”
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Green Cockade
Liam Brady Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Location: Belfast Status: Offline Points: 2674 |
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A lot of fans wanted Michael O'Neill sacked but he turned it round very impressively with a limited squad playing a certain way and giving their all. Managers are too often victims of short termism and even Alex Ferguson came perilously close to premature oblivion at Old Trafford. I don't always agree with Mick McCarthy's team selections - for some unfathomable reason he never consults me before he picks his teams, or asks my advice on tactics-but I accept he knows a bit more about it than the average public house loudmouth. The fate of Ipswich since he left should provide a salutary lesson.
Edited by Green Cockade - 19 Mar 2020 at 7:42pm |
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Banjaxed
Liam Brady Joined: 21 Feb 2014 Status: Online Points: 2965 |
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Let's close down the forum then. We know that Mick has more experience than us, but that doesn't disqualify people from an opinion. What's the point of the jaysus forum otherwise?
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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There were a number of reasons why he wasn't sacked, some "allowable", some not. Re the latter, you have to remember that results, performances, player morale and crowds had been terrible before he took over, so expectations amongst the IFA were accordingly lowered. Plus the IFA didn't want the expense of sacking/replacing him. Re the former, he still "had the dressing room" (i.e. players were heeding call-ups where previously they would pull out with 'Ryan-Giggs-Hamstring'). More importantly, while results were terrible, performances were undoubtedly much better - in several games, we came away wondering how the hell we'd only drawn, or got beaten. For example, we went out to Portugal (Ronaldo and all) and were leading 1-0 from half an hour until Postiga got a scrappy, hardly-deserved equalizer ten minutes from time. Then in the home game, we fell behind early but turned it round to go 2-1 up, before Brunt AND Lafferty got sent off, meaning with 9 vs 10 (Portugal also had a red card), a half-fit Ronaldo now had space to score three goals in the last 20 minutes . Home to Luxembourg, we took the lead early, battered them but couldn't score a second, then they got a breakaway equaliser with 4 minutes to go. And in the away game, we took the lead early, thought we had it won, then were suckered by two Luxy goals (fair play to them) before McAuley equalised with 10 minutes left. At this point we should have closed it down, but no, McAuley took a fit of the head staggers, went charging forward for the winner and they scored their third from a long ball through the middle of our defence in the dying minutes In fact, conceding late was a blight on that campaign - as Michael pointed out afterwards, had games finished after 75 minutes, we'd have had seven(?) extra points and the group table would have looked far more respectable. All that said, I have it on good authority that had we lost our final qualifier in Israel, Michael's position was under real threat, but we got a decent enough draw, he survived and the rest is history.
Edited by Territorial - 19 Mar 2020 at 10:15pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Some did, no doubt, but fewer than you might expect considering the results. Certainly, there was never the vitriol against him that his predecessor Worthington had suffered. Agree about short-termism, though.
Fair enough, but he's not being paid to know more about the game than the average public house loudmouth, he's being paid to know more than the manager in the opposition dugout, who in most cases is being paid a helluva lot less than Mick. Edited by Territorial - 19 Mar 2020 at 10:14pm |
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King_Kenny
Liam Brady Joined: 31 Aug 2019 Location: Claudy Status: Offline Points: 2478 |
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Jesus wept! Give him another 10 years then. Pub loudmouths. Post up your ticket receipts !
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Healy52003
Liam Brady Joined: 02 Dec 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2001 |
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Mick is still manager in 2024 in my Football manager 2020 save game
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Pipkin
Liam Brady Joined: 07 May 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1975 |
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Mr Brick is correct. In fact, we have the weakest squad in 50 years.
Even more reason as to why McCarthy wasn’t the right man. It was a short term fix to get us to these Championships before Delaney sailed into his UEFA gig and whatever will be will be. Now is the time to build, not continue to prolong the inevitable. There are championships in 2022 and 2024 that we have some kind of hope of performing in. Euro 2021 will be a repeat of Euro 2012 if we do qualify
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Green Cockade
Liam Brady Joined: 22 Jan 2020 Location: Belfast Status: Offline Points: 2674 |
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Scoring goals is always going to be a major problem with the current squad. Scott Hogan might yet come good if he can replicate what he has being doing for Birmingham, and Mick certainly rates him, but the team lacks creativity and does not have a natural goal scorer in the mould of Robbie Keane or Joe Lapira.
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Artie Ziff
Ray Houghton Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3604 |
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if there was no Nations League, we would be in a play off like Euro 2016.
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It would damage this forums' reputation
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Didn't see ROI vs Georgia, but my point about NI vs Luxy was that both results were in the "S hit Happens" category, and while disappointed and concerned, most NI fans who attended accepted them as such (McAuley's ill-discipline excepted). Was it the same with Georgia, or was it that with Mick's selection and tactics, the s hit was always liable to follow?
Obviously the players have a major responsibility to implement a manager's instructions. But in the end, it doesn't matter how much players like a manager personally, if they don't believe in him and his methods, they will invariably fail to perform to their maximum (see Stan Staunton for an extreme example). With NI, I always contrast Sammy McIlroy and Michael O'Neill. It was obvious that the NI players liked Good Old Sammy, but that was never enough, the experienced players at least knew that he wasn't up to the task of international management, so that an already difficult job (small playing pool) became all-but-impossible under his management and leadership. Whereas with Michael, the players always believed that if they followed his instructions, they would have a chance. And this conviction was maintained even during a difficult start, when the results simply would not come despite their best efforts. Edited by Territorial - 20 Mar 2020 at 1:19pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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No, I'm not qualified to comment and in positing the "loss of conviction" theory, I'm only speculating. But sometimes people think that when a manager "loses the dressing room", it's because he's actively disliked by the players, yet that's not always true. Or he may be disliked by a few individuals, but not by the group as a whole. It is even possible that a manager is disliked by many (all?) of his players, but still gets results, because the players accept that his methods are sound and will get results if followed. Two examples of this from Scotland were Jock Wallace and Jim McLean, both of whom could be right bastards, but still got results. (Michael O'Neill could tell you a few stories about McLean!). Getting back to Mick Mc, could it be that the players generally like him and respect his past record as player and manager, but deep down, they believe that his time in management has come and gone? I'm sure that that was the case with Martin O'Neill (after the initial shine wore off), and same at Forest after he went there as well.
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E2016
Liam Brady Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1742 |
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If Staunton had the rules of Euro 2016 qualifiers he would have qualified us for a playoff. Your point is irrelevant. The manager manages the team in the current format of the competition, not the past format or the ideal format. He failed. These playoffs are nothing to do with him. Given when they are projected to take place, he should be moved on now.
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Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Some interesting points E2016, I think Mick has been very much needed post Martin O'Neil's tenure. The squad Mick inherited was becoming a mess and he needed to stabilise the team. Which he did.
I was one that was really pleased with his appointment and although results have been ok, must admit am disappointed with performances and our approach to some of the games, Georgia as an example. Irish fans always seem to be fearful of change, be it with players in the team or manager in the dugout. Of course we dont want to be a team that just acts as a conveyor belt for managers and I dont think we are, but we need to make progress. I think this is a good opportunity to let Kenny take the team forward, McCarthy is not going to improve the team at this point. Let's start from current crop of promising young players and give them senior team experience, yes, they may very well struggle to start but they will get better, and that's the key point, molumby, connolly, oshea, knight etc etc can get much better as players, the players nearing their mid 30s will only get worse. We need to look at a strategy for the next 3 or 4 years, not just the right now.
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