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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 10:28pm
There are loads of bog standard teams, I hope we can one day achieve that level again!

Edited by pre Madonna - 21 Nov 2019 at 10:29pm
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It’s easier to qualify than not to almost 
UEFA are doing their best to suck every bit of enjoyment out of the tournament it seems

They’ll be announcing the quarter final fixtures next 
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I would agree with changing it now. I can’t see Mick doing anything to win us one game, never mind two, penalties or not. The fact we are hoping for penalties says it all about the mindset. I gave Mick the benefit of the doubt until Georgia, there was little to be excited about but he was on course to do what he was hired for. Then he did that. 
It wasn’t the result, but the fact he settled for a point. That must be incredibly demoralising for the players, it definitely was for the fans. I knew we would finish third then. It will be more of the same in Bratislava.
I’ve long been of the opinion that we aren’t in the top 24 teams and are very unlikely to qualify, but two games against other mediocre teams might not be impossible with a slightly different approach. It might not achieve anything, but it is all we have.

It’s still ludicrous we got a playoff for being brutal.

Yet some fans on here still think it was the right approach.  I seriously don't get that.  It just goes to show that the fans have been institutionalised to be scared sh*tless of losing what we have (a draw) in favour of what we want and need (a win).
Mick wants to draw every game because he is scared that if he tries to win he will lose.  Isn't that the point of football? To take to the pitch and try to win?

He just doesn't want to have to win games.  He wants to fudge every game and hope that someone cocks up and allows us to jammily stumble over the line. 

He will try to not lose the semi final first and foremost.  Then hope some stroke of complete luck goes in our favour and they allow us to score undeservedly.
Then he will try not to lose the final and rinse and repeat his 'pragmatic' (i.e dinosaur) strategy.

I would be tempted to get Kenny in now but it would actually be unfair on him.  Actually fook it. I think it would be worth it.
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actually comical when he threw big Duffy up top on Monday night LOL
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Originally posted by mully_85 mully_85 wrote:

actually comical when he threw big Duffy up top on Monday night LOL

There isn't anything comical about it Mully. In fact, on page 70 of this thread, I posted the below- see last line. If we are going down the same route for Slovakia, and let's face it, we are, he doesn't know any other way- he should give every night from here to March camped outside Daryl Murphy's house. 

As big as Duffy, but helpfully, is also a centre forward. Don't give me the ''he's in league 1'' thing, the man still knows how to win a header from as long ball or cross, and he's surely good for 15 minutes of action and maybe a penalty as well. 

If we aren't going to embrace the future, we may as well go back the other way. 



Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

In the system we usually play, the wide men are the key to attacking. Whelan is a defensive mid, who has little pace, so when he is on the ball, an opposite number merely has to screen him from going any further up the pitch, something he is reluctant to do anyway. 

We have Hourihane (Browne in the Swiss game) alongside him, but neither of them have any pace either, and both are also ponderous on the ball, even more so than Whelan is. Again, they don't have to be closely marked by the opposition, the opposition merely has to cut down their already limited passing options.

Hendrick is the one fella that can run, so he is usually the closest marked one of the midfielders. His passing isn't good enough to get him out of trouble in the midfield areas most of the time, so after all 3 of them have had a go at passing the ball sideways & backwards, the ball goes out wide, eventually. 

This is where the whole thing falls down. McClean rarely keeps any kind of possession. Balls bounce off him, he takes on men he can't beat, or he stops, checks, and passes backwards, back to square one. On the other wing, absolutely nobody has made the place their own, despite all of Robinson, Brady, O'Dowda, Doherty, even Hendrick on occasion, playing there over the last 2 years. 

With the wingers so careless/useless in possession, the full backs behind them don't have the confidence to go forward, because they know if the winger loses the ball with them in an advanced position, they are defensively exposed. McGoldrick, who genuinely is good at holding the ball up and bringing others into play, provided the only other alternative attacking option. When he wasn't there, Collins lack of mobility was also ruthlessly exposed. Both Connolly and even Hogan were far more mobile when they were playing CF, though made redundant by the inability of the midfielders to find them with accurate passes. 

We have undroppable players there on merit, well, 2 of them anyway, Randolph and Duffy. We also have undroppable players who prevent us from playing another system that might not rely so much on poor wingers, McClean and Coleman, neither of whose form has been good in a long time, not just the past 2 games. 

If McCarthy was brave enough, he would go 3-5-2 for Denmark, Duffy, Egan, Long at CB with Doc & Stevens as wing backs. Whelan, Hendrick (I know he didn't have good games, but his physicality will ensure he plays anyway) and one of Cullen or Byrne, both of whom can control a ball and move it on quickly, something that is badly lacking in the current team. Connolly playing off McGoldrick up top. 

Even in the current system, there are options there if Mick would only use them. Doc, Egan, Duffy, Stevens back 4, Whelan, Hendrick, Cullen/Byrne as middle 3, Connolly on left, McGoldrick middle, Shane Long on right. I know Long hasn't scored a goal in ages, but even if he was never to score another goal for us, he annoys defenders and has pace that would worry defenders trying to play a high line. 

Either of those teams in either formation would at least in theory have a greater chance of retaining possession and also contain a little bit of pace that provides even a counter attacking threat. Because at the moment, we play like a rugby team. Launch long ball at a winger, try get a throw in, then try get a corner, then send up Duffy & Egan and hope for the best. 

If we keep relying on this, and keep picking wingers who repeatedly give the ball away, it will take a fluke or a very poor Denmark performance for them not to win it. I see absolutely no sign Mick would be prepared to take any of those options, he would see them as too risky, and his idea of risk would be to throw Duffy up front for the last ten minutes (something I fully expect to see V Denmark).
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It was never going to go any other way tbf. Once we were in with a shot with 10 or 15 minutes left in this campaign, it was gonna be a case of chucking those big lads up front and praying something falls our way. 

I'll be honest and say I thought we'd never get to that last 15 minutes of the campaign, I thought we'd be out before our last game. What bugs me the most about the game on Monday though is again the mindset. So many people think we played really well, but I think it was one of the biggest missed opportunities we'll ever have. In that first half the Danes were all over the shop. They didn't know whether to stick or twist, 2 players injured, 1 of 2 others looked completely disinterested, and when Dolberg came on I believe they effectively played the majority of the game with 10 men. We didn't go for it though. We simply did not play what was in front of us. We crunched the numbers and thought let's be in with a shot with 20-30 to go, and no matter what the opposition are at, we are happy with that lot. It was most definitely a mindset issue, but it wasn't one from just that night. 

Every single game leading up to that night had fed into that woeful mindset. It's why imo it's so depressing that we didn't go with a more positive manager in this campaign. By the time we'd gotten to the playoffs we'd have surely built up some pattern of play under that manager. As it is, we are down to pot luck in the playoffs and imo I think we had more than our fair share in the group stage and we'll run out in Slovakia.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 22 Nov 2019 at 12:13am
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Maybe I am overestimating then, they certainly didn’t play well, but the Danes never seemed threatened. In the same way that we never truly looked like we could win the game, I feel they never felt they could lose it. For all the talk of them only beating us once in six games, in at least four of those games they were the happier side with the result, with one game being a dead rubber.
There was an apathy to their performance, maybe that’s why people get so worked about their supposed arrogance. 
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Oh I agree, we barely threatened. That is my point though, the Danes were way off their usual standards Monday night imo, especially in the first half when their performance was careless bordering on shambolic imo, yet we barely threatened. You have to try and get momentum in such a big game and while we kept possession pretty well, there was no sense that we were taking risks and being overly aggressive in an attacking sense in that first half. It was a big opportunity missed imo.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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What I mean is that one was a result of the other. They expected us to be sh*t! I think if we had scored first it would still have been 1-1, because we would have had a hard luck story to fall back on and the Danes would have improved.

It’s risky from Hareide. Like McCarthy, his negativity is often passed off as pragmatism. I think it is reckless. Anyway, that’s their problem. I wish them well though. I certainly don’t get the hate, apart from Schmeichel, but that’s genetic.
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Giving Kenny the job now would be a complete hospital pass. He doesn't have any time to do anything.

What we need from Mick now is do something he's not done before and beat mid-ranking opponents away from home.

Mick has 8 wins and 8 defeats away from home as Ireland manager over his two spells.

These are the teams he defeated:

Liechtenstein, Iceland, Lithuania, Malta, Cyprus, Andorra, Estonia, Gibraltar


And these are the teams he lost to in their own backyards:

Romania, Macedonia, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Iran, Russia, Switzerland
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Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:

Giving Kenny the job now would be a complete hospital pass. He doesn't have any time to do anything.

What we need from Mick now is do something he's not done before and beat mid-ranking opponents away from home.

Mick has 8 wins and 8 defeats away from home as Ireland manager over his two spells.

These are the teams he defeated:

Liechtenstein, Iceland, Lithuania, Malta, Cyprus, Andorra, Estonia, Gibraltar


And these are the teams he lost to in their own backyards:

Romania, Macedonia, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Iran, Russia, Switzerland


I don't care at this stage.  Mick hasn't a hope of qualifying us.  He'll be spouting his ''if we try to play football we'd get beat 10!'' wisdom in the press conferences and tell us all how a draw would be a good result in Slovakia.  This man hasn't a scoobie how to go about beating two teams away from home in the space of a week.  Not a hope!   I'd rather we lost the right way than lose playing 1980's Wimbledon tactics.  Actually they took to the pitch trying to win mind you.
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It’s a free shot for Kenny, but there’s no chance McCarthy will do it. Absolutely none!
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I don't think anyone coming in now could change much. Kenny would only have a few days to work with the players.

Any manager is going to look at the situation and see that our strength is in defence and we lack goals. And the basic Jack Charlton mentality, created, reinforced and slightly adapted over thirty years, won't be changed that quickly.

So even if Kenny was the manager, we'd still be going to Slovakia trying to keep things tight. There's no leeway or time in which to bed in new players or tactics.

And we still know that if we concede one goal, we won't win the game, and if we concede two it's all over.

So for good or ill, Mick will see out the campaign.
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Mick on BT Sport panel for the Wolves - Man Utd game. 
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Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Mick on BT Sport panel for the Wolves - Man Utd game. 
Thanks for that I’ll mute the tv and listen to the commentary on Alexa !
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Some comments from Mick this evening about the likes of Randolph, Idah, Long and Smallbone : 
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Good that he is in contact with long and it seems all good between them.
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Originally posted by Strazdas Strazdas wrote:

Some comments from Mick this evening about the likes of Randolph, Idah, Long and Smallbone : 



I get the feeling Mick isn’t penning these himself. He sounds far too optimistic 
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