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Mick McCarthy |
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irishmufc ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() ![]() I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 24975 |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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OnTheOneRoad ![]() Ray Houghton ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 4190 |
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The fallacy about trapattoni at Ireland is that there's a tendency to analyse him as the legendary 1980s manager trapattoni rather than what we got. Damien Duff was a phenomenal player, when he turned up at rovers his legs were gone and stunk the place out. You don't analyse what someone did before he showed up for you, you analyse what you've got in front of you. Trap did a job for us, but him and his tactics had gone out of style and indeed usefulness against top sides several cycles beforehand. He also didn't pay much attention to the players he was actually managing. None of this is to bash on trap and he certainly isn't a joker, just that while he will obviously be the most successful manager ever to manage us, that's not what we got. We rightly gave MON grief for trying to apply the methods of Clough to the modern game, trap tried to apply the methods of 1980s trap to our game. Both had some degree of success and then became hopelessly outdated, and to eulogise trap as a legend doesn't have much bearing on what happened with us - even with the good job that he did.
Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 11 Sep 2019 at 7:58pm |
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No thank you Turkish......I'm sweet enough
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grannyrule ![]() Ray Houghton ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Location: Parts Unknown Status: Offline Points: 4674 |
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He steadied the ship but then just like Martin O'Neill completely overstayed his welcome.
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The only way is up
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horsebox ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34721 |
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One of the most decorated managers in the history of the game. |
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
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doherty ![]() Jack Charlton ![]() ![]() Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7577 |
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And a blinding good chap at that. Also he brought Manuela into our lives...
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deise316 ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Trap- Football God or dinosaur, MON- Football God or dinosaur, yep, go ahead and have those arguments if ye want to. But suggesting Mick is somehow radically different from them might be the maddest stretch of all.
To put it very simply, if there is some simple sliding scale of managers from 1-10, with the likes of Bielsa, Pep, Klopp up there at 1 as innovators/thinkers/coaches, and Trap/MON off down at 10 for being a defensive minded coach stuck in his ways, where's Mick ? At best, he's about 6, and I think I'm stretching it at that. Just to be clear, I'm not criticising Mick at all, I knew what we were getting, and he has done an excellent job of doing what Mick McCarthy does, especially given the mess he inherited and the short timeframe he had to try sort it out. But presenting a few draws against decent teams as a radical leap forward, nah, I don't think so. We've pretty much always been able to do that. Especially given the context of the end of MON's term being so bad that it was getting to a point where the next appointment couldn't have done any worse, regardless of who that appointment was. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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The O'Shea ![]() Jack Charlton ![]() ![]() I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9485 |
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O'Neill got a bump out of the team after Trap by getting them to play (a little) more football. McCarthy probably is just doing the same thing. The difference is that O'Neill was around long enough for the progress to abruptly end and the terminal regression to set in, Mick won't be.
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We're decent enough..
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Trap junior ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() ![]() YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39482 |
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I'm a Mick fan mostly based off his 1st tenure. I do think he has changed somewhat and is now more conservative and risk averse. Now that may be down to having one year with the team or it may be down to getting older and less idealistic. Results have been decent so far but nothing out of the ordinary. All I want is for EIRE to play the way TE did against the Germans. They played very well I thought and were attacking and entertaining like us back in the old Lansdowne circa 1998. They lost but they lost fighting and another day with a bit of luck would have won that game. They are doing things right. Our game plan seems to be to pox draws every time we play anyone half decent and then wait for someone else to slip up allowing us to stumble blindly over the finish line. It's just not cricket. |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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Left foot ![]() Ray Houghton ![]() Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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He could have invented football and won every trophy in world football. He was still absolute muck for ireland. |
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deise316 ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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You should have a read of this if you haven't seen it already. There's quite a bit of truth in it too. By contrast, we have Kenny rightly being praised, I see his coaches Andrews (a vocal critic of Trap - after he retired- & MON in his pundit capacity) and Crawford also coming in for deserved praise as progressive coaches. We will see the other side of that coin when Kenny loses his first game though, and there will be little let up from the very start. It's taken Klopp 3 years with a hell of a lot of resources, to get Liverpool competitive at the very top, taken Poch much the same time at Spurs- If we want a change, I think Kenny can be the man to deliver that, but it isn't going to happen overnight, regardless of what 11 he picks. That's where Early's article is correct, some fans just want to go on the piss at the tournaments, how we get there & what we do when we get there isn't overly relevant to them. 2 conservative managers in Mick & Hughton took 50% of the Ybig poll when MON was sacked, and we have already had posters giving the opinion Kenny will be a disaster. I honestly believe we have to change, if nothing else we are about 10 years behind already, but we are going to need a strong FAI to either back Kenny through a possible dodgy results patch, or if they have to replace him, to pick someone who can improve us, not just make us very difficult to beat as I'm sure Chris Hughton for example, would. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Hans Moleman ![]() Roy Keane ![]() ![]() Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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We are well more than 10 years behind imo. That's why the retention of MON and the appointment of McCarthy is an absolute disaster. We had a huge window there to rebuild under a progressive manager. It didn't have to be Kenny btw. 2 years where we could rebuild and if we failed in these qualifiers, we were almost guaranteed a playoff spot. We could have been in a very different place next March in those playoffs (I still strongly believe we will be in them) if the FAI had made a decent decision for once.
Kenny will be on a hiding to nothing when he comes in. A massive transition will now have to take place. He won't have enough games, and he'll also have the World Cup qualifiers to negotiate while in this transition. It is a far far higher bar to qualify for the WC than the Euros, a massive reason to have started proper changes after that Danish defeat in late 2017. People seem to think that Kenny will have a great chance to transition the team with a handful of Nations League games. We have 10 Euro 2020 qualifiers where you could be rebuilding now with the guarantee of still being only 2 games away from the Euros next year via the playoffs. You will never again get such an opportunity to rebuild with so little pressure on. I think it will be years before people realise the damage done by this 2 year stint of MON and McCarthy. It is a black hole in Irish senior football, and it's going to be extremely tough to get out of.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Trap junior ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() ![]() YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39482 |
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I read Early's piece a few days ago. I disagree Delaney ''inherited a progressive coach in Brian Kerr''. Kerr did great with the underage teams but his time as manager wasn't impressive. He had Given, Duff, Keane, Dunne all playing absolutely brilliantly for their clubs at their peak and had a lot of good pros too such as Roy Keane who still had a bit to offer, Kilbane, Kinsella, Cunningham etc and got very little out of them. The football was terrible and sterile and ultra conservative. There didn't seem to be much team spirit either. Kerr had a professional approach but he didn't have the caliber to be an Ireland manager imo. |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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Roberto Baggio ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() ![]() UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37149 |
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I don’t grasp this at all, but how were we almost guaranteed a play off spot before the euros qualifying kicked off, whenever we finished bottom of our NL group?
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kearney304 ![]() Liam Brady ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 Feb 2014 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1992 |
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Talking about Mick here RB
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Roberto Baggio ![]() Robbie Keane ![]() ![]() UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37149 |
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Yes I’m responding to a Moleman comment above
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Hans Moleman ![]() Roy Keane ![]() ![]() Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Kerr also had 1 campaign more or less written off by the time he came in (by our Mick), and in the second campaign where he was putting together a good side imo we were very close to qualifying. Iirc Keane was injured by the time we lost to France late in that group which was a big blow. He was trying to get us playing a certain way, and it takes time. Imagine replacing him with Stan for f*ck sake. We could have been in a totally different place by the next campaign.
It's interesting how different managers are viewed. McCarthy had 2 failed campaigns and some abysmal performances (far far worse than anything Kerr served up) and he's revered by many. McCarthy also effectively had a failed 3rd campaign in those '04 qualifiers that few attribute to him for some reason.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Hans Moleman ![]() Roy Keane ![]() ![]() Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Once we were in group B of the Nation's league we were 90 plus percent likely to get a playoff spot in March 2020, no? We could effectively have lost every Nations League and Euro qualifying game 5-0, and we were still only 2 games away from qualifying for the Euros. We knew all of this ages ago, and could easily have planned accordingly.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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deise316 ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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NL rankings were frozen when the NL ended, we were ranked 23rd, so only needed 15 above us to qualify to get a playoff. That's the simple version- we still could have missed out if 4A teams and 4 or more B teams ranked above us didn't qualify automatically, leaving us with no route into the playoff league A, but that was always unlikely given the draw- it won't happen now. Most people still think coming 3rd is a factor, had to correct a mate the other night saying that Albania were in with a good chance of a playoff by maybe finishing 3rd in their group - they aren't going anywhere unless they finish 2nd. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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