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John Nice 
Jack Charlton
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 Posted: 20 Aug 2023 at 8:44pm |
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Has looked ok when he has got the ball in the opposition half, but he doesnt have any defensive instincts whatsoever, he is not a solution for us at RWB unless against very poor opposition. He is really a wide attacking player being asked to do a job as a wing back and is playing much higher up the pitch (by design) than the wing back on the other flank.
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JUICEBOMB
Liam Brady
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Posted: 20 Aug 2023 at 11:34pm |
 John Nice wrote:
Has looked ok when he has got the ball in the opposition half, but he doesnt have any defensive instincts whatsoever, he is not a solution for us at RWB unless against very poor opposition. He is really a wide attacking player being asked to do a job as a wing back and is playing much higher up the pitch (by design) than the wing back on the other flank. |
Pretty much would sum him up going by that juve game….defensively he was nowhere to be seen but that was more than likely down to team formation so we could be a little unkind to him.
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 11:13am |
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
Edited by kevin100 - 21 Aug 2023 at 11:15am
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Banana_RepublicFC
Liam Brady
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 11:31am |
At least he's getting minutes at a high level.
He won't face many better teams than Juventus in Serie A. Learning curve.
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kevin100
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 11:42am |
Banana_RepublicFC wrote:
At least he's getting minutes at a high level.
He won't face many better teams than Juventus in Serie A. Learning curve. |
100% he’s doing okay and the manager had every excuse to hook him at half time yet hooked the opposite wing back. Seen the goals and when your gifting Juve a goal two minutes in on a hiding to nothing from there. Handball was just unfortunate.
Looking at their bench Abankwah and Geussand the two young lads seem to have worked their way up to 4th/5th choice behind the 3 main starters at CB. Hopefully down the line Abankwah will gradually start getting a few minutes.
Edited by kevin100 - 21 Aug 2023 at 11:47am
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 12:21pm |
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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Typical enough for very fast players to struggle with cramp earlier than you might expect. Their muscles are geared towards explosiveness rather than endurance.
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We're decent enough..
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 2:39pm |
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 3:20pm |
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around.
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We're decent enough..
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Badgersboys9
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 3:24pm |
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He's seemly suffered an injury which will be assessed over the next few days.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 3:31pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around. |
He was poor defensively, lost his man, got dribbled around, didnt get back in to the correct position to clear the ball etc. It may well be a trope, but anybody watching that game yesterday would conclude that he has loads to learn defensively. he just does not have the instincts of a defender (understandably). I like festy, but he isnt close to being ready to play as a RWB at international level.
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Fozz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 4:16pm |
Badgersboys9 wrote:
He's seemly suffered an injury which will be assessed over the next few days. |
The lad is never far from an injury it seems. Same as Obafemi and Connolly.
Hopefully the latter can now get a run of games but until that happens, and happens to all of them, you can't help but feel they are playing between injuries.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 4:36pm |
Fozz wrote:
Badgersboys9 wrote:
He's seemly suffered an injury which will be assessed over the next few days. |
The lad is never far from an injury it seems. Same as Obafemi and Connolly.
Hopefully the latter can now get a run of games but until that happens, and happens to all of them, you can't help but feel they are playing between injuries. |
Shane Long was similar early in his career, lots of hamstring issues etc. Went on to get past them as he matured.
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Loc
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 6:55pm |
John Nice wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around. |
He was poor defensively, lost his man, got dribbled around, didnt get back in to the correct position to clear the ball etc. It may well be a trope, but anybody watching that game yesterday would conclude that he has loads to learn defensively. he just does not have the instincts of a defender (understandably). I like festy, but he isnt close to being ready to play as a RWB at international level. |
Serie A is probably a higher standard than international level?
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 6:58pm |
Loc wrote:
John Nice wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around. |
He was poor defensively, lost his man, got dribbled around, didnt get back in to the correct position to clear the ball etc. It may well be a trope, but anybody watching that game yesterday would conclude that he has loads to learn defensively. he just does not have the instincts of a defender (understandably). I like festy, but he isnt close to being ready to play as a RWB at international level. |
Serie A is probably a higher standard than international level? |
Not when youre playing the French/Dutch
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 7:01pm |
John Nice wrote:
Loc wrote:
John Nice wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
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I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around. |
He was poor defensively, lost his man, got dribbled around, didnt get back in to the correct position to clear the ball etc. It may well be a trope, but anybody watching that game yesterday would conclude that he has loads to learn defensively. he just does not have the instincts of a defender (understandably). I like festy, but he isnt close to being ready to play as a RWB at international level. |
Serie A is probably a higher standard than international level? |
Not when youre playing the French/Dutch |
Arguably only 2/3 of our players are "good wnough" to play the French if that's how you're judging it tbf.
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We're decent enough..
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 7:03pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
Loc wrote:
John Nice wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
kevin100 wrote:
Watched him against Atalanta last year and he didn’t look like a player with zero “defensive instincts”.
Didn’t watch last nights game but sounds like he and his team had an eventful night. The fact the manager hooked the other wing back at half time I’d take as a positive. Last year that was Ebosele the rare time he did play. Had every excuse to hook him really if he had doubts about him.
Also that’s not the first time he’s gone off with cramp relatively early in a game. Bit Obafemiesque in that sense similar size/shaped player too.
|
I watched his full 58 minutes on the field, he was very poor defensively, but did some good things going forward and created a couple of decent opportunities. To be fair he was playing very high as the RWB, presumably on instruction, but he let himself down on a number of occasions when required to defend, not tracking his man, not occupying the right areas etc. He does not look ready to play as a RWB in this Irish team, thats not to say he shouldnt be in the squad (if he recovers from injury) as he can certainly make an impact higher up the pitch e.g. replacing Ogbene with 15 minutes to go. |
He had very little to do defensively with most of Juve's play coming down the other flank, and as you say he was obviously playing very high up the field on instruction.
I think a lot of tropes get thrown around about certain types of players - if a guy is converted from a winger to wing-back/full-back their defensive capabilities are written off regardless of the reality; if a player is fast and athletic his technical ability gets questioned; if they're short their physicality is questioned; etc. Mostly it's just rules of thumb that people unconsciously throw around. |
He was poor defensively, lost his man, got dribbled around, didnt get back in to the correct position to clear the ball etc. It may well be a trope, but anybody watching that game yesterday would conclude that he has loads to learn defensively. he just does not have the instincts of a defender (understandably). I like festy, but he isnt close to being ready to play as a RWB at international level. |
Serie A is probably a higher standard than international level? |
Not when youre playing the French/Dutch |
Arguably only 2/3 of our players are "good wnough" to play the French if that's how you're judging it tbf. |
Yeah ok, my point is that Ebosele doesnt look ready to start as a rwb against such opposition, but that he could perhaps be used as an impact sub further up the pitch, but whatever.
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Loc
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 7:08pm |
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I would imagine Juve are a better team than the Dutch. Anyway opposition is somewhat irrelevant, we can only pick the best players and surely a guy playing in Serie A has to be in the reckoning considering our other options (guy with no mind in PL or a champ CB). Get that he might not start but dunno how he can be considered miles off int level
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 7:20pm |
Loc wrote:
I would imagine Juve are a better team than the Dutch. Anyway opposition is somewhat irrelevant, we can only pick the best players and surely a guy playing in Serie A has to be in the reckoning considering our other options (guy with no mind in PL or a champ CB). Get that he might not start but dunno how he can be considered miles off int level |
He could make the squad, assuming he's not injured again, but if that happens I'd imagine he'd be more likely to be used further up the pitch. He's started one Serie A game at RWB for Udinese and got hooked on 57 minutes due to injury having given away an admittedly harsh penalty. Did you actually watch the game?
I'm as eager as the next man to see fresh blood being introduced and I'm a big fan of Festy, but imo he's not ready to start games for our senior team.
Our options arent great with Coleman probably out but I'd still have Doherty/Browne/Sykes/Ogbene/O'Shea ahead of him at RWB for now.
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