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FAI to unveil €863m wish-list to transform footb

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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

55% of clubs in Ireland do not own their ground. That sounds ridiculously high and I wonder what that would look like benchmarked against other EU nations of similar size.

Also, of the top 40 largest stadia in Ireland by capacity, only 3 host football. Crazy stat for a country that lists Football as its No.1 participation sport.

It's not necessarily a negative that clubs don't own their ground. The model works for Rovers and if the rebuild happens then will likely work well for Bohs also.

On the largest stadia etc, that's purely down to the fact that GAA exists. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

55% of clubs in Ireland do not own their ground. That sounds ridiculously high and I wonder what that would look like benchmarked against other EU nations of similar size.

Also, of the top 40 largest stadia in Ireland by capacity, only 3 host football. Crazy stat for a country that lists Football as its No.1 participation sport.

It's not necessarily a negative that clubs don't own their ground. The model works for Rovers and if the rebuild happens then will likely work well for Bohs also.

On the largest stadia etc, that's purely down to the fact that GAA exists. 


I wouldn't know much about it to be honest, just seemed quite high and stood out to me.

In terms of stadia, regadless of the existence of the GAA, that's still a crazy stat when football is the no.1 most participated sport in the country. We also aren't the only country in the world that plays multiple sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

55% of clubs in Ireland do not own their ground. That sounds ridiculously high and I wonder what that would look like benchmarked against other EU nations of similar size.

Also, of the top 40 largest stadia in Ireland by capacity, only 3 host football. Crazy stat for a country that lists Football as its No.1 participation sport.

It's not necessarily a negative that clubs don't own their ground. The model works for Rovers and if the rebuild happens then will likely work well for Bohs also.

On the largest stadia etc, that's purely down to the fact that GAA exists. 


I wouldn't know much about it to be honest, just seemed quite high and stood out to me.

In terms of stadia, regadless of the existence of the GAA, that's still a crazy stat when football is the no.1 most participated sport in the country. We also aren't the only country in the world that plays multiple sports.

But participation doesn't equal bums on seats at games. The reason there is a 40,000 capacity stadium in Thurles is that it's filled a couple of times a season. 
Now, there is also a separate reason for that stat being as it is and that is also the GAA, in my opinion, wasting money on country grounds that never get filled but that's a whole different point.
Either way, I just don't think it's really a relevant stat here even though it's used in the report.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

55% of clubs in Ireland do not own their ground. That sounds ridiculously high and I wonder what that would look like benchmarked against other EU nations of similar size.

Also, of the top 40 largest stadia in Ireland by capacity, only 3 host football. Crazy stat for a country that lists Football as its No.1 participation sport.

It's not necessarily a negative that clubs don't own their ground. The model works for Rovers and if the rebuild happens then will likely work well for Bohs also.

On the largest stadia etc, that's purely down to the fact that GAA exists. 


I wouldn't know much about it to be honest, just seemed quite high and stood out to me.

In terms of stadia, regadless of the existence of the GAA, that's still a crazy stat when football is the no.1 most participated sport in the country. We also aren't the only country in the world that plays multiple sports.

On the grounds point, actually I think you are referring to all clubs not just LOI clubs - I would definitely agree that is a problem for grassroots clubs as it limits what you can get in terms of grants to improve grounds and facilities. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

55% of clubs in Ireland do not own their ground. That sounds ridiculously high and I wonder what that would look like benchmarked against other EU nations of similar size.

Also, of the top 40 largest stadia in Ireland by capacity, only 3 host football. Crazy stat for a country that lists Football as its No.1 participation sport.

It's not necessarily a negative that clubs don't own their ground. The model works for Rovers and if the rebuild happens then will likely work well for Bohs also.

On the largest stadia etc, that's purely down to the fact that GAA exists. 


I wouldn't know much about it to be honest, just seemed quite high and stood out to me.

In terms of stadia, regadless of the existence of the GAA, that's still a crazy stat when football is the no.1 most participated sport in the country. We also aren't the only country in the world that plays multiple sports.

But participation doesn't equal bums on seats at games. The reason there is a 40,000 capacity stadium in Thurles is that it's filled a couple of times a season. 
Now, there is also a separate reason for that stat being as it is and that is also the GAA, in my opinion, wasting money on country grounds that never get filled but that's a whole different point.
Either way, I just don't think it's really a relevant stat here even though it's used in the report.



Yeah that's a fair point to be honest Thumbs Up

I'm probably looking it from a different angle and not necessarily the right one. Re the Clubs ownership, yes I'm presuming they are talking about all clubs and not solely the LOI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 11:55am
GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 

There is really no point in bringing up the huge investment in GAA tbh. It has huge historic, cultural and societal significance across the country and it would be remiss of Government not to invest significantly in protecting out own indigenous sports. Bringing up the GAA when arguing for increased investment wont win any friends in political circles.

What is most disappointing is the failure of the FAI over many years to utilise windfalls and attract significant private investment (not surprising given the corruption and cronyism at its heart). You can argue that its class based etc and there may be some truth in that, but how does the IRFU compare with the FAI in terms of stadia owned, balance sheet etc. Soccer should be ripe for investment in this country as evidenced by ever increasing spectator numbers - all the indicators point to a rapidly growing market and yet significant private investment seems as far away as ever - there is really only one reason for this, the FAI! Would you hand €1mn to them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 

The GAA have been better at lobbying than football has - That has to be laid at football's door. 
Most of the money the GAA have got has been very well invested. 
The point on rugby doesn't really stand up based on their level of funding received I believe. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:


there is really only one reason for this, the FAI! Would you hand €1mn to them?


So what's the solution here? Never put any trust in the FAI again due to past events? You have to start somewhere surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darraghn92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Apart from South Dublin Council, does anybody need a stadium over 10,000?  With the Comer backing and Derry being bankrolled maybe we will get strong regional city clubs at last.  Cork, Galway, Derry and Waterford have proper potential to be big clubs, and the Dublin clubs with their population should always be aiming higher, but Dundalk don't need a stadium any bigger than 5,000, nor Sligo, Drogheda and most clubs.  Proper facilities should be the starting point for any ground, capacity can be worked on after that.

Well Sligo have planning permission already to turn the Showgrounds into a 6,000 seated Category 3 stadium so hopefully that goes ahead 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote williemc83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:34pm

[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't know much about it to be honest, just seemed quite high and stood out to me.

In terms of stadia, regadless of the existence of the GAA, that's still a crazy stat when football is the no.1 most participated sport in the country. We also aren't the only country in the world that plays multiple sports.
[/QUOTE]

Participated sport being the key point. People who play football don't as a rule necessarily watch the LOI.

From a 'spectator' perspective they watch cross channell football and Champions League. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 

The GAA have been better at lobbying than football has - That has to be laid at football's door. 
Most of the money the GAA have got has been very well invested. 
The point on rugby doesn't really stand up based on their level of funding received I believe. 

Rugby is disproportionately wealthy compared with the size of its support base, simply because its support base is the ABC1 demographic. They also have ready access to volunteers with significant business contacts and can leverage that for funding and investment. Have you ever attended a schools rugby match? It is like PwC meets GoldmanSachs! The biggest single variable that explains the differential in wealth between the major sporting organisation relates to social class and access to political influence, and not financial competency. John Delaney is thankfully gone now, so yeah, if I had a million to invest, I would trust someone like Roy Barrett. Pity he is on the way out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mooret2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:43pm
I have to agree with above posts re suggested size of grounds. Government finances have to be dictated by evidence - the current evidence suggests crowds are approx. 1,500-4,000. Seeking stadia of 20,000 is outlandish. The problem with this approach is it makes the financial pitch easy to disregard as rubbish. A more pragmatic proposal would be more difficult to discount. Facilities are crying out for investment - I hope we haven't damaged this current chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 

The GAA have been better at lobbying than football has - That has to be laid at football's door. 
Most of the money the GAA have got has been very well invested. 
The point on rugby doesn't really stand up based on their level of funding received I believe. 

Rugby is disproportionately wealthy compared with the size of its support base, simply because its support base is the ABC1 demographic. They also have ready access to volunteers with significant business contacts and can leverage that for funding and investment. Have you ever attended a schools rugby match? It is like PwC meets GoldmanSachs! The biggest single variable that explains the differential in wealth between the major sporting organisation relates to social class and access to political influence, and not financial competency. John Delaney is thankfully gone now, so yeah, if I had a million to invest, I would trust someone like Roy Barrett. Pity he is on the way out.

That view is vastly out of date. I went to a school that played in Leinster schools rugby - It's not a private school and I'm not aware of anybody in my year at school who went on to excel in investment banking. The local club want to put in an artificial pitch which took them quite a few years of fundraising to go in with some grants they got. 
What sort of "In" do you think the likes of Coolmine, Enniscorthy, Longford, New Ross , Ardee, Tallaght rugby clubs have? 


Edited by Borussia - 08 Jun 2023 at 12:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

GAA have received massive and disproportionate funding not based on merit but based on clientelism and the hold that GAA has on local politicians. There are also class based reasons. How many doctors, barristers and accountants line out for their local soccer team or are club members? Their contacts and leverage are important in Rugby and GAA circles. It is an uphill struggle for football to get a slice of the pie but fair play to the FAI for giving it a go. It is hard enough without having to deal with a legacy of corruption and incompetency. 

The GAA have been better at lobbying than football has - That has to be laid at football's door. 
Most of the money the GAA have got has been very well invested. 
The point on rugby doesn't really stand up based on their level of funding received I believe. 

Rugby is disproportionately wealthy compared with the size of its support base, simply because its support base is the ABC1 demographic. They also have ready access to volunteers with significant business contacts and can leverage that for funding and investment. Have you ever attended a schools rugby match? It is like PwC meets GoldmanSachs! The biggest single variable that explains the differential in wealth between the major sporting organisation relates to social class and access to political influence, and not financial competency. John Delaney is thankfully gone now, so yeah, if I had a million to invest, I would trust someone like Roy Barrett. Pity he is on the way out.

That view is vastly out of date. I went to a school that played in Leinster schools rugby - It's not a private school and I'm not aware of anybody in my year at school who went on to excel in investment banking. The local club want to put in an artificial pitch which took them quite a few years of fundraising to go in with some grants they got. 
What sort of "In" do you think the likes of Coolmine, Enniscorthy, Longford, New Ross , Ardee, Tallaght rugby clubs have? 
I think you know full well that those areas you mention in no way represent the heartlands of Rugby in Ireland. Look at the social backgrounds of the Irish national soccer team, and compare with the national rugby team. That's the difference. And it makes a difference in terms of accessing funding for  clubs etc. The FAI cannot overcome 100 years of history, they wont get what they should based on the massive support for football in Ireland. The reputational damage caused by Delaney doesn't help!
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Football is always in a hard place in this country. the interest in the sport is unparalleled. Listen to any sports news segment and football will be mentioned. Granted its premeir league or CL before LOI but it shows the interest. Now consider the amount of people who have no bother playing 5 aside. Not to mention all the 11 aside teams. 
Then look at the way the sports treated and spoken about, probably about 4th behind GAA codes and Rugby. There is a pitfall here, and thats to compare. No sports can or should be compared and its and easy debate to get dragged in to which will have no conclusion. Also I think the FAI got it wrong with their recent report. Dont get the Racing community offside, they are intertwined in irish community life up and down the country and to be seen to have a go is to make football look bitter. They should have just stuck to the Positives football contributes and ask for cut of gambling tax. To me the PR backfired. There was also a blatant hypocracy in their approach. They both undermined the ethics and gambling and asked for the cut of it.
Theres a good interview with angus o rioridan on LOI weekly recently. Really paints a picture of Football in the country. Just to take one point, Its far easier for a local politician to back the GAA club than the local Football table, based simply on catchment size. Theres more football clubs within the same catchment size as 1 GAA club. 
I dont propose a solution. I do think Football has to fend for itself unfortunately as the country is sewn up otherwise. Its a shame it hasnt considering the level of interest in the support. And without a doubt the FAI have been brutal costodians of the game previously which have done more damage than any rival organisation could have ever done to the sport.



I think it might have also been taken up wrong and reported wrongly, not helped by how Leo responded in the Dail.
I dont think the report was necessarily having a go at horse racing and asking for a slice of their pie, rather an increased levy could then produce more slices of pie to be shared around also to football investment given the social and economic benefits the extra investment would bring.


Edited by t_rAndy - 08 Jun 2023 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 1:13pm
Tallaght Rugby club would be more akin to soccer clubs around the country. Good people involved keeping it ticking over but no facilities. They have pitches they can use basically but that's it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2023 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Tallaght Rugby club would be more akin to soccer clubs around the country. Good people involved keeping it ticking over but no facilities. They have pitches they can use basically but that's it. 


The IRFU have (from what I'm led to believe) been very proactive in assisting clubs across the country especially in the provincial towns and are making a concerted effort to try and move Rugby away from its "privileged class" roots, particularly in Dublin. While not knowing a whole lot about the IRFU, I am surprised that a Rugby Club in Tallaght hasn't been able to tap into that.
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