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Bunny Munro View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bunny Munro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: FAI Finances thread
    Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 1:31pm
Worth bringing this to the attention of the Public Accounts Committee and specifically John McGuinness. Not a huge fan of his but he is like a dog with a bone when it comes to government spending and normally the PAC likes to go beyond their remit. If JD was called into the PAC, he'd be asked questions like his personal expenses, personal ticket allocation etc. There must be some Kilkenny people here willing to take it up with John McGuinness.

If the GAA were called in over Garth Brooks, then surely this warrants similar action. Although it appears there are more voters among Garth Brooks fans and Mary Lou might not want to go on the attack now that JD has declared he's one of her own.

If this was being raised with the PAC, it could be important to highlight any aspects that affect government funding of the FAI or anywhere money appears to be mishandled such as:

- The stadium funding which was co-funded by the government and how the FAI handled their obligations under that funding.

- Visibility into ticket sales and where that money goes.

- Commitments made to purchasers of season tickets in the form of priority for away tickets and how that is managed e.g. it may be fraud if they are selling tickets under false pretences.

- "Freebies"' given out by JD in the form of tickets to Scotland and other games, rounds in bars etc. and how that is accounted for tax purposes - both FAI and personal.

- FAI expenses and again how these perks are handled both in terms of use of government money and financial reporting. One of the reasons he has the support of the board is beacuse they all eat from the same trough.

There are more, those are just some off the top of my head...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 1:48pm
Very interesting.
 
First things first. Have to establish if the FAI is completely self-financing (independent of funding) or whether it relies on grants, subventions, etc from public funds. So....does anyone here know:
 
1. Do the FAI receive public funding from the Exchequer?
2. If so, from what source ie what Department, other body etc
3. How much per annum and whether the money is for specific things 
 
If it can be established that the FAI receive public funds, then there is almost CERTAINLY a tie-in with the Dail having a role to
 
a - ensure good corporate governance,
b-  assess how public funds are being managed
c. - getting TDs to ask questions that are not being answered by the FAI to YBIG, journalists,private citizens etc)
 
 
PS - got a copy of the FAI review - it was located at a different linkConfusedConfused - silly me!
 
 
 


Edited by greengooner - 28 Nov 2014 at 2:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

That link takes me to booking a course
Found the review here
 
 
All i can say is WOW!
 
I'm no accountant but ......
 
The FAI's total Fixed assets are 91 Million which sounds great!!
 
However, 88 milion of these are "intangible Assets" -  can someone suggest what those 88 Million of intangible assets might be made up of? 
 
wikipedia says that an Intangible asset is an asset that lacks physical substance and usually is very hard to evaluate. It includes patents, copyrights, franchises, goodwill, trademarks, trade names.
 
So the FAI appear to have
Fixed assets of 3 milion,
Current ASsets of 5.5 million,
the "intangible assets of 88 Million
 
Versus
 
Hard debts of 82.5 Million
 
Gulp.
 
 
Platini are you listening
You'd better keep your trophy glistening
Cos we'll be over next year
To drink all your beer,
Walking in an Irish Wonderland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MariborKev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by greengooner greengooner wrote:

Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

That link takes me to booking a course
Found the review here
 
 
All i can say is WOW!
 
I'm no accountant but ......
 

Essentially, brand.  Yes, I realise how ridiculous that sounds even the last few weeks....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by MariborKev MariborKev wrote:

Originally posted by greengooner greengooner wrote:

Originally posted by FREEWHEELER FREEWHEELER wrote:

That link takes me to booking a course
Found the review here
 
 
All i can say is WOW!
 
I'm no accountant but ......
 

Essentially, brand.  Yes, I realise how ridiculous that sounds even the last few weeks....
THe IRFU report for the same period lists Intangible assets as  ZERO............ConfusedConfusedConfusedConfused
 (funny that the  IRFU report has about 20 pages of financial data - FAI 3 with no breakdowns or notes to teh accounts)
 
Irish Rugby values it's brand image as NIL on the balance sheet
Irish football values its brand image  as 88 Million
 
Eh......ConfusedConfusedConfused 
 
Something is not adding up.......
 
Shane Ross where are you......


Edited by greengooner - 28 Nov 2014 at 2:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 2:48pm
Platini are you listening
You'd better keep your trophy glistening
Cos we'll be over next year
To drink all your beer,
Walking in an Irish Wonderland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrenC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:10pm
The FAI Annual Report says where ye can get more information

"These summary financial statements have been extracted from the full statutory financial statements of the Association for the year ended 31 December 2013. The annual report and statutory financial statements, including the independent auditors’ report thereon, may be obtained from the office of the Association at the National Sports Campus, Abbotstown, Dublin 15".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:13pm
Id move across all the other posts on this if possible, especially the ones on goodwill, intangible assets etc

edit, nice one


Edited by nvidic - 28 Nov 2014 at 3:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:16pm
If anyone knows the FAME database you can get financial information on football associations through it. You can get any financial information through it for companies.

Edited by seanyshuffler - 28 Nov 2014 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:35pm
Intangible assets could represent a number of items. I'd be surprised if, in this case, the brand was the intangible asset as I'm pretty sure the brand value can only be recognised if the company was taken over, i.e the FAI can't just decide the brand is worth €88m, the FAI would need to be bought, with 88m of the purchase price being associated with the value of the brand.
 
Interestingly, the skills and/or knowledge of your employees can be an intangible asset...so perhaps Delaney's skills/knowledge is valued at €88m? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

If anyone knows the FAME database you can get financial information on football associations through it. You can get any financial information through it for companies.

Also solocheck.ie for more recent accounts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MariborKev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by MJD MJD wrote:

Intangible assets could represent a number of items. I'd be surprised if, in this case, the brand was the intangible asset as I'm pretty sure the brand value can only be recognised if the company was taken over, i.e the FAI can't just decide the brand is worth €88m, the FAI would need to be bought, with 88m of the purchase price being associated with the value of the brand.
 
Interestingly, the skills and/or knowledge of your employees can be an intangible asset...so perhaps Delaney's skills/knowledge is valued at €88m? LOL

Computer software can be a intangible asset.  The FAI's bespoke ticketing software is worth at least €20m I'd say.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 3:49pm
The intangible Asset is mainly linked to the FAI's contribution towards the building costs of the Aviva Stadium which are capitalised at cost and amortised over the useful life of the stadium (50 years). It also includes any Legal, Professional fees etc.. associated with this.

I havent looked at the link above re: 2013 review but the intangible was 88m back in 2011 - so if it is still at 88m, looks like not much amortisation is taking place!!

However, that 88m was largely funded by the debt which was incurred by the FAI's for its share of the building costs. As JD got that slashed (I forget by how much) then I guess the intangible should reduce by an equivalent amount (I think that will be a 2014 adjustment)...


Edited by Junior - 28 Nov 2014 at 3:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baresi41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Bunny Munro Bunny Munro wrote:

Worth bringing this to the attention of the Public Accounts Committee and specifically John McGuinness. Not a huge fan of his but he is like a dog with a bone when it comes to government spending and normally the PAC likes to go beyond their remit. If JD was called into the PAC, he'd be asked questions like his personal expenses, personal ticket allocation etc. There must be some Kilkenny people here willing to take it up with John McGuinness.

If the GAA were called in over Garth Brooks, then surely this warrants similar action. Although it appears there are more voters among Garth Brooks fans and Mary Lou might not want to go on the attack now that JD has declared he's one of her own.

If this was being raised with the PAC, it could be important to highlight any aspects that affect government funding of the FAI or anywhere money appears to be mishandled such as:

- The stadium funding which was co-funded by the government and how the FAI handled their obligations under that funding.

- Visibility into ticket sales and where that money goes.

- Commitments made to purchasers of season tickets in the form of priority for away tickets and how that is managed e.g. it may be fraud if they are selling tickets under false pretences.

- "Freebies"' given out by JD in the form of tickets to Scotland and other games, rounds in bars etc. and how that is accounted for tax purposes - both FAI and personal.

- FAI expenses and again how these perks are handled both in terms of use of government money and financial reporting. One of the reasons he has the support of the board is beacuse they all eat from the same trough.

There are more, those are just some off the top of my head...

posted this on the away ticket thread. yes they do get funding. Not only the PAC but the Minister for Sports Pascal Donohoe should be lobbied.  Checkout the Oireachtas  Links.. As I said lobby TD's councillors etc. Questions posed here are serious question marks over the association, the CEO, expenses, litigation issues.
 
Our current Minister for Sport is Pascal Donohoe, and why he has not been brought in to mediate on this issue is beyond me. Politicians love to have a photo opportunity and be seen around big media events. His department fund the GAA, IRFU, FAI, Horse Racing Ireland and numerous other associations, so he would have an input and clout. We know certain media outlets won't support or mention our cause, but there are many ways to skin a cat, and done properly,we can utilize social media, alternative press (paper), radio phone-in shows. This I stress should be done right promoting our cause, not a frenzy, that distracts from our ultimate aims.

JD claims he could have ran for Fianna Fail in 2007, well it's election time in 2016. Our local politicians like to call around to houses at Christmas time or been seen at local events, so use the opportunity to voice your opinions, up to and including that campaign. Their paid to listen, and if you make a representation to your local TD or indeed councilor, it will be dealt with, and they always respond with a letter back to you the person making the complaint or enquiry. They call it lobbying, and that's what we need to do. Politicians must keep their correspondence confidential, under the constitution.

We are citizens or Ireland and beyond, and although our diaspora abroad can't lobby politicians, they have as much access to media, TV, radio etc. where they reside. Thinking out loud, the Irish Post in the UK is a well read broadsheet. This is where a worldwide focus on our plight starts. 


Found this link. Worth noting.

 http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document34.htm

No mention of the FAI here, but we can get a petition for 10k signatures and get it raised in the DAIL.. Why not.. Joe Duffy show had Davy Keogh on, he's not representative of us, as he always gets sorted for tickets.. Look at the column thanking volunteers in sport, and capital grant schemes. This is our focus...Thumbs Up

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by baresi41 baresi41 wrote:

Originally posted by baresi41 baresi41 wrote:

Originally posted by baresi41 baresi41 wrote:



Found this link. Worth noting.

 http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document34.htm

No mention of the FAI here, but we can get a petition for 10k signatures and get it raised in the DAIL.. Why not.. Joe Duffy show had Davy Keogh on, he's not representative of us, as he always gets sorted for tickets.. Look at the column thanking volunteers in sport, and capital grant schemes. This is our focus...Thumbs Up


Found this bill on the Dail website about "doping in sport", and changes for all sporting organistions. 
We've certainly found a "dope"LOLLOL

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2014/8514/b8514d.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrenC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 4:22pm
Ye the FAI rights in Aviva are an intangible asset as they don't own the stadium. The value of the 60 year lease reduces each year but theoretically the debt should reduce also as they are gonna pay it off really fast according to themselves.

The idea of being debt free by 2020 is surely ludicrous though. Most worrying is the creditors due within one year - rose by 3 million and is 20 million more than short term debtors. They also made a loss if ye exclude exceptional item (was that a UEFA grant - can't remember) which by definition won't be repeated.

Hard to say much without looking at the full accounts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baresi41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 4:24pm
Folks. Pasted too much. This is the oireachtas link. As you can see, ongoing discussions on funding for sport, upgrading facilities etc. The PAC would be ideal to get involved as they have a mandate to investigate, wages, spending etc.  Here's the link to start with, you can search anywhere on this link for sport.


 http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document34.htm



http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2014/8514/b8514d.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seanyshuffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 4:39pm
Would coaches employed by the FAI count towards intangible assets? As in their value etc. in developing players?
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