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darmack 
Ray Houghton
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 Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:20am |
Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?
Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations. So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America. Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.
Or they could have just left it the same. | Confederation | Eligible FIFA members | Spots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots) | Percentage of members with spots in finals | Spots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots) | Change in percentage of slot allocation |
|---|
| AFC | 46+1[a] | 8+1⁄3 | 17.4%+0.7% | 4.5 | 77.8%+7.4% | | CAF | 54 | 9+1⁄3 | 16.7%+0.6% | 5 | 80.0%+6.7% | | CONCACAF (hosts) | 35 | 6+1⁄3 (+1⁄3) | 17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%) | 3.5 | 71.4%+9.5% (+9.5%) | | CONMEBOL | 10 | 6+1⁄3 | 60.0%+3.3% | 4.5 | 33.3%+7.4% | | OFC | 11 | 1+1⁄3 | 9.1%+3.0% | 0.5 | 100%+66.7% | | UEFA | 55 | 16 | 29.1% | 13 | 23.1% | | Total | 211+1 | 48 | 22.7% | 31 + 1 (hosts) | 50% |
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 1:43pm |
 BrendanD88 wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?
Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
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UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.
This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups. |
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 1:46pm |
darmack wrote:
Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?
Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations. So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America. Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.
Or they could have just left it the same. | Confederation | Eligible FIFA members | Spots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots) | Percentage of members with spots in finals | Spots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots) | Change in percentage of slot allocation |
|---|
| AFC | 46+1[a] | 8+1⁄3 | 17.4%+0.7% | 4.5 | 77.8%+7.4% | | CAF | 54 | 9+1⁄3 | 16.7%+0.6% | 5 | 80.0%+6.7% | | CONCACAF (hosts) | 35 | 6+1⁄3 (+1⁄3) | 17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%) | 3.5 | 71.4%+9.5% (+9.5%) | | CONMEBOL | 10 | 6+1⁄3 | 60.0%+3.3% | 4.5 | 33.3%+7.4% | | OFC | 11 | 1+1⁄3 | 9.1%+3.0% | 0.5 | 100%+66.7% | | UEFA | 55 | 16 | 29.1% | 13 | 23.1% | | Total | 211+1 | 48 | 22.7% | 31 + 1 (hosts) | 50% |
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The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.
The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO.
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BrendanD88
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 2:08pm |
Shedite wrote:
BrendanD88 wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?
Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
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UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.
This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups. |
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC |
Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 2:22pm |
darmack wrote:
Are so many European countries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?
Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations. So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America. Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.
Or they could have just left it the same. | Confederation | Eligible FIFA members | Spots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots) | Percentage of members with spots in finals | Spots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots) | Change in percentage of slot allocation |
|---|
| AFC | 46+1[a] | 8+1⁄3 | 17.4%+0.7% | 4.5 | 77.8%+7.4% | | CAF | 54 | 9+1⁄3 | 16.7%+0.6% | 5 | 80.0%+6.7% | | CONCACAF (hosts) | 35 | 6+1⁄3 (+1⁄3) | 17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%) | 3.5 | 71.4%+9.5% (+9.5%) | | CONMEBOL | 10 | 6+1⁄3 | 60.0%+3.3% | 4.5 | 33.3%+7.4% | | OFC | 11 | 1+1⁄3 | 9.1%+3.0% | 0.5 | 100%+66.7% | | UEFA | 55 | 16 | 29.1% | 13 | 23.1% | | Total | 211+1 | 48 | 22.7% | 31 + 1 (hosts) | 50% |
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Simple answer - no. Yet again, even taking it as a percentage of qualifiers, Europe has over performed compared to everyone else. And that's even with a couple of big hitters messing up and of course the European champions not even qualifying.
Number of qualifiers for the last 16 for each confederation, as a percentage of tournament qualification spots:
Europe 8 from 13 61.5% S America 2 from 4 50% Asia 3 from 6 50% Africa 2 from 5 40% N America 1 from 4 25%
Even allowing for the need to spread the places around the world Europe should really have 20 qualification places in a 48 team tournament. That would still allow all the other confederations to get additional places compared to now while at the same time hopefully preventing substandard North American, Oceania and Asian teams from qualifying, which will almost certainly happen in 2026. If three or four of the 20 are given through intercontinental playoffs, then fair enough. But only having a third of the qualifiers for 2026 being from UEFA devalues the tournament sadly.
In better news it looks like they're moving towards 12 groups of 4 next time, rather than the ridiculous 16 groups of 3 idea that was in place until now. That mistake will likely be corrected next year now by FIFA.
Edited by You Tell Me - 03 Dec 2022 at 2:26pm
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 5:06pm |
darmack wrote:
Are so many European counries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?
Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations. |
It is pretty outrageous that Africa is getting another 3, possibly 4, spots when Europe is only getting an extra 3.
For if yoiu look at past African participation, their record is pretty crap i.e. with 49 participations, they have only ever had 11 teams get out of their group to the last 16, of which only 3 to date have got to the last 8 and none beyond that:
And if those are there best five teams, how much weaker must their second-rate teams be?
darmack wrote:
So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America. Maybe
an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an
intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of
qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings. |
I'm also not at all sure about giving South America an extra couple of teams, either. For if you look past perennial qualifiers Brazil and Argenina, they generally have one or two more from Columbia and Uruguay, maybe Ecuador or Chile who can put up a show, but that's it - three or four competitive teams in each finals.
Theres no way all six 2026 entrants will all be "on it" at the same time, and so be competitive in the finals. And beyond that, who does it leave? Bolivia? Paraguay? Venezuela? Peru? CONMEBOL simply does not have the strength in depth to justify 6 entrants out of 10 members.
darmack wrote:
Or they could have just left it the same. |
Blasphemer!
Edited by Territorial - 03 Dec 2022 at 5:19pm
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Bandwagon
Liam Brady
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 6:00pm |
Shedite wrote:
The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.
The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO. |
Expanding it is purely for money reasons. It has nothing to do with improving the game or the tournament, if anything it'll do the opposite.
With the new allocations its clear they're trying more or less assure the largest populated countries qualify every time.
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Shedite
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:32pm |
BrendanD88 wrote:
Shedite wrote:
BrendanD88 wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?
Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
|
UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.
This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups. |
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC |
Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations. |
You said they deserve more than 16, more than 16 is getting close to 24 (which is 50%)
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:33pm |
Bandwagon wrote:
Shedite wrote:
The point of expanding the tournament is to let more teams their chance of getting in, like China had in 2014, North Korea in 2010, Trinidad in 2006 etc. Expanding it isn't about changing who wins it, the best team will still win.
The challenge of the World Cup is to beat teams with all different styles of football, so if they're going to 48 (which I don't agree with), they're doing it the right way IMO. |
Expanding it is purely for money reasons. It has nothing to do with improving the game or the tournament, if anything it'll do the opposite.
With the new allocations its clear they're trying more or less assure the largest populated countries qualify every time.
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Yeah they're hoping the countries with the biggest Tv audience is going to get in. They want to get in countries with large populations and an opportunity to build a strong domestic league
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Shedite
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:37pm |
You Tell Me wrote:
darmack wrote:
Are so many European countries getting into the last 16 because there are more of them?
Was thinking that Uefa haven't gotten as many extra place as other federations. So many south American counries it will be like a Copa America. Maybe an extra 2 places or however many could have been up for grabs in an intercontinental game, or if your in a certain position by the end of qualifying in the zone goes down to fifa rankings.
Or they could have just left it the same. | Confederation | Eligible FIFA members | Spots in 2026 finals
(including hosts and intercontinental playoff spots) | Percentage of members with spots in finals | Spots in 2022 finals
(excluding hosts, including intercontinental playoff spots) | Change in percentage of slot allocation |
|---|
| AFC | 46+1[a] | 8+1⁄3 | 17.4%+0.7% | 4.5 | 77.8%+7.4% | | CAF | 54 | 9+1⁄3 | 16.7%+0.6% | 5 | 80.0%+6.7% | | CONCACAF (hosts) | 35 | 6+1⁄3 (+1⁄3) | 17.1%+1.0% (+1.0%) | 3.5 | 71.4%+9.5% (+9.5%) | | CONMEBOL | 10 | 6+1⁄3 | 60.0%+3.3% | 4.5 | 33.3%+7.4% | | OFC | 11 | 1+1⁄3 | 9.1%+3.0% | 0.5 | 100%+66.7% | | UEFA | 55 | 16 | 29.1% | 13 | 23.1% | | Total | 211+1 | 48 | 22.7% | 31 + 1 (hosts) | 50% |
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Simple answer - no. Yet again, even taking it as a percentage of qualifiers, Europe has over performed compared to everyone else. And that's even with a couple of big hitters messing up and of course the European champions not even qualifying.
Number of qualifiers for the last 16 for each confederation, as a percentage of tournament qualification spots:
Europe 8 from 13 61.5% S America 2 from 4 50% Asia 3 from 6 50% Africa 2 from 5 40% N America 1 from 4 25%
Even allowing for the need to spread the places around the world Europe should really have 20 qualification places in a 48 team tournament. That would still allow all the other confederations to get additional places compared to now while at the same time hopefully preventing substandard North American, Oceania and Asian teams from qualifying, which will almost certainly happen in 2026. If three or four of the 20 are given through intercontinental playoffs, then fair enough. But only having a third of the qualifiers for 2026 being from UEFA devalues the tournament sadly.
In better news it looks like they're moving towards 12 groups of 4 next time, rather than the ridiculous 16 groups of 3 idea that was in place until now. That mistake will likely be corrected next year now by FIFA.
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20 teams this time would have got in 6 of.... Italy, Sweden, Ukraine, North Macedonia, Austria, Scotland, Czech, and Turkey. Bar Italy, I don't think any of the teams would bring anything more to the tournament than Egypt, Nigeria, Peru, New Zealand etc. None of those teams are getting to QF's anyway, so I prefer washing teams in the WC that I don't see every Nation League highlights show.
I hate going to 48 teams, but I'd hate it more if it ends up being basically all the Euros teams.
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BrendanD88
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 9:41pm |
Shedite wrote:
BrendanD88 wrote:
Shedite wrote:
BrendanD88 wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?
Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
|
UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.
This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.
In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.
That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups. |
Do you agree with teh same logic for Champions League? 4 English teams get in the last 16 every year, so they should have 8 of the 32 group stage teams? That's what you're saying should happen for WC |
Where did I say UEFA should get over 50% of the spots for the World Cup? It’s not unreasonable to suggest more places should be accommodated for European sides, even if that means they have to face play offs against teams from other confederations. |
You said they deserve more than 16, more than 16 is getting close to 24 (which is 50%) |
16 out of 48 teams is 33.3%, of course Europe deserve more than that, I didn’t say they deserve 24 spots.
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Maccatacca
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:19pm |
It's not even an argument, Europe deserves more spots.
Japan and South Korea can beat rested Spains and Portugals all they like, one of the worst Irish teams of all time [on paper] was able to do that to Italy six years ago.
It's not that impressive. Most of the Euro teams who didn't progress to the last 16 were eliminated by other European teams, e.g. Switzerland, Belgium, Wales etc.
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You Tell Me
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Posted: 03 Dec 2022 at 10:37pm |
Yes it's a nonsense, suggesting that New Zealand who are ranked outside the top 100 in the world deserve pretty much a guaranteed spot rather than giving more of a chance to Norway, Sweden or Ukraine is ridiculous really.
Not to mention that the new format together with the allocation means the likes of Iraq, Panama, Jordan, Uzbekistan and other teams that simply aren't up to the standard are likely to qualify while quality teams in UEFA are left hoping for a decent draw to have any chance of qualification for even a 48 team tournament.
It's insane what FIFA are doing - and it's all just politics, nothing to do with growing the game.
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notpropaganda73
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Posted: 04 Dec 2022 at 10:14am |
what about some ridiculously convoluted "AN Other" spots for all of us around the world not good enough to qualify via our own traditional means, something like that mad playoff competition for the women's world cup that we thankfully avoided by beating Scotland
that way the likes of New Zealand and Peru can duke it out against Ukraine and Norway for the last couple spots
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Nialler
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Posted: 04 Dec 2022 at 11:41am |
notpropaganda73 wrote:
what about some ridiculously convoluted "AN Other" spots for all of us around the world not good enough to qualify via our own traditional means, something like that mad playoff competition for the women's world cup that we thankfully avoided by beating Scotland
that way the likes of New Zealand and Peru can duke it out against Ukraine and Norway for the last couple spots |
This is the way to go. They should get playoff spots not outright places.
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Territorial
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Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 1:47pm |
Shedite wrote:
They want to get in countries with large populations |
China - 1.5bn India - 1.4bn Indonesia - 273m Pakistan - 220m Bangladesh - 165m Ethiopia - 115m Philippines - 110m Vietnam - 97m DR Congo - 86m Tanzania - 60m Myanmar - 54m
They'll be expanding the 2030 WC to 200 teams then, so. 
Shedite wrote:
... an opportunity to build a strong domestic league |
Did nothing for domestic leagues in Mexico (1970, 1986), USA (1994), South Africa (2010) or Russia (2018). While even South Korea/Japan (2002) havent shown great progress domestically, considering how populous, wealthy and well-organised those countries are more generally. And as for Qatar - every single one of their squad this year plays in the Qatari league, where they earn decent money.. And every one of them was sh*te.
Fact is, even if they spout this argument at regular intervals, I dont' think even the blazers at FIFA believe that hosting a World Cup creates a legacy for countries which don't have a strong footballing culture already.
Instead it's quite simply Infantino "buying" votes from the non-UEFA/CONMEBOL members by offering extra invites to the Big Party every four years.
And along with the 3 team group format, I predict (a ) expansion in 2026 will backfire badly, at least as regards the quality of matches, and (b ) Infantino won't give a stuff.
Edited by Territorial - 05 Dec 2022 at 1:47pm
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 2:29pm |
Territorial wrote:
Shedite wrote:
They want to get in countries with large populations |
China - 1.5bn India - 1.4bn Indonesia - 273m Pakistan - 220m Bangladesh - 165m Ethiopia - 115m Philippines - 110m Vietnam - 97m DR Congo - 86m Tanzania - 60m Myanmar - 54m
They'll be expanding the 2030 WC to 200 teams then, so.
Shedite wrote:
... an opportunity to build a strong domestic league |
Did nothing for domestic leagues in Mexico (1970, 1986), USA (1994), South Africa (2010) or Russia (2018). While even South Korea/Japan (2002) havent shown great progress domestically, considering how populous, wealthy and well-organised those countries are more generally. And as for Qatar - every single one of their squad this year plays in the Qatari league, where they earn decent money.. And every one of them was sh*te.
Fact is, even if they spout this argument at regular intervals, I dont' think even the blazers at FIFA believe that hosting a World Cup creates a legacy for countries which don't have a strong footballing culture already.
Instead it's quite simply Infantino "buying" votes from the non-UEFA/CONMEBOL members by offering extra invites to the Big Party every four years.
And along with the 3 team group format, I predict (a ) expansion in 2026 will backfire badly, at least as regards the quality of matches, and (b ) Infantino won't give a stuff.
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Each to their own, but I don't think football belongs to the established countries. Every team should have a chance to playat a World Cup. Euros going to 8 and World Cup to 24 in the 80's allowed Ireland to qualify, you don't think that had a legacy on the popularity on the game here?
Edited by Shedite - 05 Dec 2022 at 2:30pm
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Mr. Snrub
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Posted: 05 Dec 2022 at 2:44pm |
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Can't wait for the 96 team World Cup in 2036.
Ireland have qualified for their first World Cup in 34 years and face off against Grenada, Solomon Islands & Djibouti in some massive Group S clashes!
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"Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"
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