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Dalymount79 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 5:13am
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I'm surprised UEFA and CONMEBOL haven't pulled the trigger before now to be honest. They hold the cards, without them FIFA is just a mish mash of second rate sides. If those two federations broke away it's inevitable that the rest would eventually have to go with them to survive, and FIFA would collapse. 
You'd think, but it's getting more and more difficult, since it all comes down to money. And while Europe football generates more money than everywhere else, it's external money which is becoming more and more influential.

That is, for 2022, Qatar was able to spend $220 billion dollars to host this time. Two. Hundred. And. Twenty. Billion. Dollars.

While their regional political enemy Saudi Arabia is also flexing its muscle globally. For example, a biennial World Cup was a Saudi proposal and now they're talking of bidding for 2030! That's right, another Middle East Finals in November, a mere 8 years/2 cycles after this one.

I mean, with the way they're buying Boxing, F1, Golf etc, then it's clear that eg buying Newcastle was small change to them.

All of which is why I'm not so sure that the Rest of the World would fall in behind UEFA and CONMEBOL should those two threaten to break away.

 
f all use if uefa / conmebol and few other teams aren’t playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 5:23am
Laws of the game are maintained by the international football association board - a 4 uk teams + 4 for fifa representing the rest.

Do they ‘own’ or have copyright on the laws? I’d say any breakaway would end up in the courts and considering money involved legal opinions have already been sought by breakaway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbuAbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 8:35am
Well if there is only one candidate and he is going to hold the purse strings for the next 5 or so years I would certainly be pledging my never ending love.................

If a new candidate emerges that is a different story

Behind the scenes moves can be done without big public pronouncements
It's not me it's you:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 8:54am
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I'm surprised UEFA and CONMEBOL haven't pulled the trigger before now to be honest. They hold the cards, without them FIFA is just a mish mash of second rate sides. If those two federations broke away it's inevitable that the rest would eventually have to go with them to survive, and FIFA would collapse. 

That would allow the two stronger confederations to take control of international football and allow the World Cup to be properly reformed, either back to a 32 team tournament with greater European and South American involvement than there is currently or by keeping the new 48 team format but having 20 to 24 European teams and 8 or 9 South American teams to keep the standards up, rather than the mess of mismatched qualifiers we're likely to see in 2026 as things stand.
Nobody wants to see a Euros every second year. World Cup is about performances like Japan/Saudis/Canada, USA and Morocco were impressive so far too. Between Euro Championships, European Qualifiers, European nations League, who needs more Ireland V Wales/Denmark etc.

Plenty of room for that alongside improving the standards with additional European and South American teams also. It's a nonsense that the likes of Italy can have a bad 90 minutes at the wrong moment in qualification and then don't go to the World Cup.

On the other hand Costa Rica qualified as the fourth ranked Concacaf team and were outclassed last night. At the next world cup there will be six automatic Concacaf spots plus a playoff spot. So, using the 2022 qualifiers as an example, Jamaica, who finished 14 points behind Costa Rica in qualifying, would also qualify automatically. Africa - 0 wins and 1 goal from five teams in the first round of group games - getting four additional automatic spots and a playoff spot next time around. As things stand, 2026 is going to be a disaster in terms of mismatched contests.
Italy dropped points to Bulgaria and Northern Ireland to qualify automatically, then lost to North Macedonia. Nobody deserves to go to a WC with those results.

Each to their own, but if you gave UEFA 3 more spots on last qualifying it'd be Ukraine, Sweden and North Macedonia here. Give them more slots and you get the likes of Austria, Czech Rep, Scotland, Turkey, Italy. Give me Nigeria, Egypt, Mali, Congo, Algeria over that. For me, WC is about seeing new teams, not more Nations League.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

Laws of the game are maintained by the international football association board - a 4 uk teams + 4 for fifa representing the rest.

Do they ‘own’ or have copyright on the laws? I’d say any breakaway would end up in the courts and considering money involved legal opinions have already been sought by breakaway.

Dunno whether IFAB has any copyright etc (doubt it), but it's probably not relevant, since lthough FIFA is heavily represented on IFAB, they are still a separate body.

In fact IFAB (founded 1896) actually predates FIFA (1904).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

For me, WC is about seeing new teams
Then sack all those teams which have qualified in the past and replace them with first timers.

Vanuatu. Tajikstan. Gibraltar - they'd all be new.

For me, it's all about seeing the Best of the Best, with genuinely competitive games - it's why you have qualifying/elimination in the first place.

On which basis it's obvious that Africa (esp) is overrepresented, and has been for years. While future expansion, heavily weighted away from Europe, will only make the problem worse.

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

... not more Nations League.
Then get rid of the NL.

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Give [UEFA] more slots and you get the likes of Austria, Czech Rep, Scotland, Turkey, Italy. Give me Nigeria, Egypt, Mali, Congo, Algeria over that.
You could always move to Africa, no?


Edited by Territorial - 25 Nov 2022 at 12:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

I'm surprised UEFA and CONMEBOL haven't pulled the trigger before now to be honest. They hold the cards, without them FIFA is just a mish mash of second rate sides. If those two federations broke away it's inevitable that the rest would eventually have to go with them to survive, and FIFA would collapse. 

That would allow the two stronger confederations to take control of international football and allow the World Cup to be properly reformed, either back to a 32 team tournament with greater European and South American involvement than there is currently or by keeping the new 48 team format but having 20 to 24 European teams and 8 or 9 South American teams to keep the standards up, rather than the mess of mismatched qualifiers we're likely to see in 2026 as things stand.
Nobody wants to see a Euros every second year. World Cup is about performances like Japan/Saudis/Canada, USA and Morocco were impressive so far too. Between Euro Championships, European Qualifiers, European nations League, who needs more Ireland V Wales/Denmark etc.

Plenty of room for that alongside improving the standards with additional European and South American teams also. It's a nonsense that the likes of Italy can have a bad 90 minutes at the wrong moment in qualification and then don't go to the World Cup.

On the other hand Costa Rica qualified as the fourth ranked Concacaf team and were outclassed last night. At the next world cup there will be six automatic Concacaf spots plus a playoff spot. So, using the 2022 qualifiers as an example, Jamaica, who finished 14 points behind Costa Rica in qualifying, would also qualify automatically. Africa - 0 wins and 1 goal from five teams in the first round of group games - getting four additional automatic spots and a playoff spot next time around. As things stand, 2026 is going to be a disaster in terms of mismatched contests.
Italy dropped points to Bulgaria and Northern Ireland to qualify automatically, then lost to North Macedonia. Nobody deserves to go to a WC with those results.

Each to their own, but if you gave UEFA 3 more spots on last qualifying it'd be Ukraine, Sweden and North Macedonia here. Give them more slots and you get the likes of Austria, Czech Rep, Scotland, Turkey, Italy. Give me Nigeria, Egypt, Mali, Congo, Algeria over that. For me, WC is about seeing new teams, not more Nations League.
LOL Yeah give us more of these tripe African teams please. If you want to watch African teams watch AFCON! Fact is there probably shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 at WCs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 12:29pm
Yeah I don't get the logic of watching Mail or DR Congo getting spanked in pointless group stage matches. The next World Cup will be a snorefest in the groups because of this new format and weakened field. Lower stakes and lower quality teams. Can't believe FIFA are going down that road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:


I'm surprised UEFA and CONMEBOL haven't pulled the trigger before now to be honest. They hold the cards, without them FIFA is just a mish mash of second rate sides. If those two federations broke away it's inevitable that the rest would eventually have to go with them to survive, and FIFA would collapse. 

That would allow the two stronger confederations to take control of international football and allow the World Cup to be properly reformed, either back to a 32 team tournament with greater European and South American involvement than there is currently or by keeping the new 48 team format but having 20 to 24 European teams and 8 or 9 South American teams to keep the standards up, rather than the mess of mismatched qualifiers we're likely to see in 2026 as things stand.
Nobody wants to see a Euros every second year. World Cup is about performances like Japan/Saudis/Canada, USA and Morocco were impressive so far too. Between Euro Championships, European Qualifiers, European nations League, who needs more Ireland V Wales/Denmark etc.


Plenty of room for that alongside improving the standards with additional European and South American teams also. It's a nonsense that the likes of Italy can have a bad 90 minutes at the wrong moment in qualification and then don't go to the World Cup.

On the other hand Costa Rica qualified as the fourth ranked Concacaf team and were outclassed last night. At the next world cup there will be six automatic Concacaf spots plus a playoff spot. So, using the 2022 qualifiers as an example, Jamaica, who finished 14 points behind Costa Rica in qualifying, would also qualify automatically. Africa - 0 wins and 1 goal from five teams in the first round of group games - getting four additional automatic spots and a playoff spot next time around. As things stand, 2026 is going to be a disaster in terms of mismatched contests.

Italy dropped points to Bulgaria and Northern Ireland to qualify automatically, then lost to North Macedonia. Nobody deserves to go to a WC with those results.

Each to their own, but if you gave UEFA 3 more spots on last qualifying it'd be Ukraine, Sweden and North Macedonia here. Give them more slots and you get the likes of Austria, Czech Rep, Scotland, Turkey, Italy. Give me Nigeria, Egypt, Mali, Congo, Algeria over that. For me, WC is about seeing new teams, not more Nations League.

LOL Yeah give us more of these tripe African teams please. If you want to watch African teams watch AFCON! Fact is there probably shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 at WCs.


And if you want to watch European teams watch the Euros.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

Yeah I don't get the logic of watching Mail or DR Congo getting spanked in pointless group stage matches. The next World Cup will be a snorefest in the groups because of this new format and weakened field. Lower stakes and lower quality teams. Can't believe FIFA are going down that road.
Well no African team has lost a match by more than 1 goal at this tournament, two of them have won games by 2 goals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakeyshamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 10:00am
Except Senegal - lost their first one by two
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

Yeah I don't get the logic of watching Mail or DR Congo getting spanked in pointless group stage matches. The next World Cup will be a snorefest in the groups because of this new format and weakened field. Lower stakes and lower quality teams. Can't believe FIFA are going down that road.
Well no African team has lost a match by more than 1 goal at this tournament, two of them have won games by 2 goals.
I don't have a problem with the top African/Asian/Nort American teams, they've earned their spots and are more than capable. My problem is they'll be almost doubling the AFC, CAF and CONCACAF spots in the next World Cup. Combining this with the new group format and seeding, it's going to make the group stages a lopsided farce with no consequences. You're going to have the likes of Brazil vs El Salvador and France vs DR Congo in a 3 team group where 1 win will see you through to a 32 round knockout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newrynyuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 11:12am
So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 11:51am
Originally posted by shakeyshamrock shakeyshamrock wrote:

Except Senegal - lost their first one by two
You're right, forgot about them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

Yeah I don't get the logic of watching Mail or DR Congo getting spanked in pointless group stage matches. The next World Cup will be a snorefest in the groups because of this new format and weakened field. Lower stakes and lower quality teams. Can't believe FIFA are going down that road.
Well no African team has lost a match by more than 1 goal at this tournament, two of them have won games by 2 goals.
I don't have a problem with the top African/Asian/Nort American teams, they've earned their spots and are more than capable. My problem is they'll be almost doubling the AFC, CAF and CONCACAF spots in the next World Cup. Combining this with the new group format and seeding, it's going to make the group stages a lopsided farce with no consequences. You're going to have the likes of Brazil vs El Salvador and France vs DR Congo in a 3 team group where 1 win will see you through to a 32 round knockout.
CONCACAF is an exception next time, 3 hosts from that region, they won't always get 6 I'd imagine.

I hate the group stage format, should definitely be groups of 4, I suspect/hope they'll revisit that before the tournament.

Your examples are picking the top 2 teams in the tournament against the bottom 2 teams in the tournament, that'll always look lopsided, we've 7-0 and 6-2 results in this tournament, I think Egypt, Nigeria, Algeria would hold their own in groups like Morocco, Cameroon, Senegal are.

Asia I'm less hot on, but understand they want to grow the game internationally, and there's huge populations over there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

Ireland (under current management) are irrelevant. You'd have needed about 30 European qualification spots for us to qualify. If Italy were there I'm sure they'd be doing just fine though and I very much doubt they'd be "embarrassing themselves".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?
I'd rather not expand the World Cup at all. But yes, expanding it to double the AFC, CAF and CONCACAF nations rather than the current split is particularly stupid. Was done only by Blatter to curry favour with these confederations so they can continue their corrupt system.


Edited by Pinginí - 28 Nov 2022 at 2:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2022 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

So rather than more African and Asian teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup, you'd rather see more European teams embarrassing themselves in an expanded World Cup instead?

Put it this way; how do you think Ireland would be doing in this World Cup against Morocco or Japan?

UEFA/Europe without doubt should be getting more places for the next World Cup.

This year 8 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2018 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2014 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2010 6 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2006 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 2002 9 European teams qualified for the last 16.

In 1998 10 European teams qualified for the last 16.

That’s over 50% of European teams in the last 16 over the past 24 years with European sides winning 5 out of 6 of those World Cups.



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