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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

What difference does it make to anyone here? the games will still be on tv so nothing will change for most people
As a season ticket holder of a club potentially involved in this, this would make a big difference. 
Football is more than a TV program. 

Less than one percent of members here are season ticket holders to a club that would be affected.
Club football is a tv programme to most people on this forum.

Same with LOI now, I just don’t get excited for games anymore as it is just a tv programme these days.

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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Oh look some competition where some club owned by billionaires can win a super duper no history competition and win billion dollar prize.  

All sport has been ruined by over corporate involvement.   Money , more money, and even more money.  It must be important so. 

Can anyone name a sport now that is a better watch than it was 30 yrs ago?

Cricket is much more enjoyable.

Twenty20 has been an amazing success.
Cricket used to be on terrestrial television

Nobody watches it now

20 20 is just bang bang cricket

No subtlety or strategy at all

A six match Cornhill Insurance test series was where it was at

If you wanted quick cricket, semi-final day of the NatWest Trophy was where it was at

A random Wednesday afternoon in August featuring Essex v Lancashire from Chelmsford and Hampshire v Yorkshire from the County Ground in Southampton

60 overs per side with live BBC2 coverage frequently alternating between each semi-final 

You'd be glued to it the whole day
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

It has been completely destroyed and made completely soulless, so the best thing that can happen is all these soulless shells and playthings for the morally bankrupt f**k off to the one place and maybe what's left can become some sort of sport again. 
I am of the view that UEFA, in particular, are deliberately trying to undermine international football to keep the 12-14 teams that can win the CL happy. The same as with this 'Conference' competition and helping the 'big 5' leagues to monopolise the places in the group stages. It can't make it any worse.

The European  Clubs Association has been at loggerheads with UEFA for years now over their (ECA) plans for a breakaway European Super League.

Remember, UEFA represents 53 Member Associations, not a (relative) handful of big clubs, so everything they do is designed to keep their Members happy.

Which is why, rather than restricting the CL in order to keep "the riff raff out" (as you put it earlier), they've actually been expanding it. And lo and behold, just as this latest threat of a Super League emerges, UEFA are now talking about extending the number of clubs in the CL further again:
https://htwww.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8858585/UEFA-expand-Champions-League-36-teams-dramatic-overhaul-2024-25-season.html

As for their trying to "undermine international football to keep the 12-14 teams happy", are you on drugs or something?

Why do you think they've eg regularly expanded the Euro's? Why do you think they introduced the Nations League? Answer: Because internationals are where they get a huge chunk of their money, which they then plough back to their Member Associations to keep them happy.
Meanwhile, the big clubs HATE all these extra international matches which are being shoehorned into the calendar.

As for the Conference, you do appreciate that this will see even MORE clubs from (mostly) the small Associations getting to play European club football not fewer, and more TV money, which in turn will go back to the Associations, not the likes of Real Madrid or Man Utd.


Edited by Territorial - 20 Oct 2020 at 5:58pm
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Why do reply to me? Once I see it is you, or Planning, I don't read it. It's your own time, I guess.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Oh look some competition where some club owned by billionaires can win a super duper no history competition and win billion dollar prize.  

All sport has been ruined by over corporate involvement.   Money , more money, and even more money.  It must be important so. 

Can anyone name a sport now that is a better watch than it was 30 yrs ago?

Cricket is much more enjoyable.

Twenty20 has been an amazing success.
My enthusiasm to get interested in cricket is as yet unfulfilled, but any cricket fans I know here  are of a very different view! They think it has been cheapened by a sort of 'rounders with razzmatazz', to quote one. 
It may well have brought new fans to the game, but it did so by undermining the traditions that made people love it and turned a lot of regular fans off. That sounds familiar!

It’s an entertainment business! 

The IPL is one of the best competitions to watch in sport.


Edited by BrendanD88 - 20 Oct 2020 at 6:07pm
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Robbie Keane
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I went to The Oval for a Twenty/20 game and it was sh*te. Put me off cricket for ages! It was like training and seemed to take away from the skills needed in the sport. It was just lads swinging a bat.
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Jack Charlton
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In fairness I wouldn't watch any county cricket, the standard will obviously be poorer! I only watch the internationals and big tournaments like the IPL and Big Bash.

It separates the best bowlers from the average bowlers. The likes of Archer, Bumrah, Rashid Khan, Rabada, Cummins etc will look good in all formats of the game.

The fielding I have seen during this IPL has been unbelievable, majority of the players are proper athletes now.


Edited by BrendanD88 - 20 Oct 2020 at 6:21pm
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Robbie Keane
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I can see the attraction of test cricket. There's nothing in that IPL, for me anyway. 
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Why do reply to me? Once I see it is you, or Planning, I don't read it. It's your own time, I guess.

Is that the best you have? LOL

Why reply at all, when it just draws more attention to your own confused, silly effort?

P.S. I might have added that this new breakaway ESL is said to have the backing of FIFA. And FIFA are at daggers drawn with UEFA, since FIFA/their Members greatly resent that Europe generates the overwhelming bulk of the money, interest and progress in the world game, so they're determined to undermine UEFA (to prevent UEFA keeping more of the influence this should give them for themselves).

But you won't read that either, I suppose....
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Points: 5285 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevincronin2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:35pm
Ok I'll look at what positives could come out of a European super League from an Irish prospective. Even in its current format there are many big clubs who will never qualify for the group stages of the champions League, in its current format it's out of reach for even clubs like Celtic. 
Having a European super League with a proper pryamid system could be half decent for league of Ireland clubs, being in a division with the likes of Leigia Warsaw, Rosenberg might be better than playing Waterford 4 times a year. Also if the European cup reverted back to a straight knock out competition you could still have the potential for David v Goliath clashes similar to the FA cup with league of Ireland sides being the equivalent of conference teams in the FA cup.
There still needs to be an entry avenue for domestic clubs into this superleague it could work like the Heineken cup in rugby where the lowest rank Irish side drops out to be replaced by the league of Ireland champions.
A lot of its and buts and  time will tell but you can be gaurented that this will be dictated by the big clubs.
time is the stuff that life is made of, don't waste it.
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I don't think any of the big English clubs have working class local fans at games anymore. It is mostly tourists. It'll make no difference to the fan that goes to games.
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Originally posted by kevincronin2000 kevincronin2000 wrote:

Ok I'll look at what positives could come out of a European super League from an Irish prospective. Even in its current format there are many big clubs who will never qualify for the group stages of the champions League, in its current format it's out of reach for even clubs like Celtic. 
Having a European super League with a proper pryamid system could be half decent for league of Ireland clubs, being in a division with the likes of Leigia Warsaw, Rosenberg might be better than playing Waterford 4 times a year. Also if the European cup reverted back to a straight knock out competition you could still have the potential for David v Goliath clashes similar to the FA cup with league of Ireland sides being the equivalent of conference teams in the FA cup.
There still needs to be an entry avenue for domestic clubs into this superleague it could work like the Heineken cup in rugby where the lowest rank Irish side drops out to be replaced by the league of Ireland champions.
A lot of its and buts and  time will tell but you can be gaurented that this will be dictated by the big clubs.

I don't think they'd do a transeuropean pyramid system. I'd say they'd keep it very elite. A 20 team league could be 4 English, 4 Italian, 4 Spanish, 4 German and then 4 "others". Bottom one of each gets relegated by the respective champions each year. I can't see any way an Irish tam would ever get near it. To be fair, an Irish team has never made group stage of Champions league in 30 years so I wouldn;t expect it really.
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Trap Junior Sports can exclusively reveal hidden camera footage of the meeting today involving Europe's top clubs







Edited by Trap junior - 20 Oct 2020 at 8:21pm
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by kevincronin2000 kevincronin2000 wrote:

Having a European super League with a proper pryamid system could be...

As 'Shedite' indicates, you can be certain any ESL will NOT have Promotion & Relegation, that's a certainty.

The whole point is for the "top" sides to have this permanently to themselves, get ever richer, pull ever further away from the rest of football.

Which is why eg UEFA have a Group stage in the CL rather than straight knock-out - this guarantees a set number of games for the big sides (to persuade them not to break away).

It's no coincidence that eg the two English clubs behind it (LFC and MU) are owned by Yanks, with a giant US bank financing it all: their experience of US sports operating a franchise system with no promotion or relegation protects the owners' investments.

Which consideration is first, last and everything in between.
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Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

I don't think any of the big English clubs have working class local fans at games anymore. It is mostly tourists. It'll make no difference to the fan that goes to games.
The days of (all) working class, local fans went out years ago, along with coal miners, flat caps and boozers which didn't allow women in the bar (unless she had big tits and was serving).

This is a reflection of socio-economic factors which have seen the working class shrink, as the middle class has grown. And as they've become more affluent, those middle-classes have moved out to the suburbs or the country from their former inner-city homes, where they have often been replaced by poor immigrant familes, with no affiliation to football, or connection to the local club. (Besides which they're priced out)

I've seen that at Spurs, where the local communities used to be Irish, Greeks, Turks and West Indians etc, now replaced by people from Africa, Asia and all over.

The point being that Spurs support is heavily made up of people who train in from all over the Northern Home Counties (or other parts of London/S.East), being Spurs fans because their Dads and Grandads were.

Meanwhile, they do get a lot of tourists - if you think eg 5,000 in a 60,000 crowd is a "lot"; it's certainly nowhere near "mostly", for no other reason that Spurs have 42,000 Season Ticket holders, seats which "tourists" can't get their hands on.

And as one of those ST holders, I make no comment on this either way, it's all just the way of the world. But I can tell you one thing, had English football clung on to their traditional working class fans to the exclusion of all others, then it would have gone the way of the miners, flat caps and old mens' boozers, killed off by hooliganism, death trap stadia and casual racism, sexism and homophobia.

"The Good Old Days", as I think they used to call it...Wink
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

I don't think they'd do a transeuropean pyramid system. I'd say they'd keep it very elite. A 20 team league could be 4 English, 4 Italian, 4 Spanish, 4 German and then 4 "others". Bottom one of each gets relegated by the respective champions each year. I can't see any way an Irish tam would ever get near it. To be fair, an Irish team has never made group stage of Champions league in 30 years so I wouldn;t expect it really.
No doubt it will be for the "elite", but not as measured by playing standards, rather by commercial potential.

That is, the big 10-12 teams, all self-selected from those leagues you mention, will be something like Real Madrid, Barca, Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG, Juve and AC Milan.

They will then invite another 7 or 8 teams to join them, based on their ability to attract audiences in their domestic markets eg Ajax/Netherlands, Benfica/Portugal, Olympiakos/Greece, Zenit/Russia, Anderlecht/Belgium, maybe even Brondby/Denmark or Celtic/Scotland?! An Istanbul team would also likely "qualify", though I don't know which one.

They will also exclude competitors in their own market, where possible. Eg Real & Barca may not want Atletico (unsure); Chelsea will be wary about having both Arsenal and Spurs on their doorstep; Liverpool won't want Everton, even if they were to win the PL and move to their new stadium. And PSG would love the prestige of being the only French team in such exalted company. So that by excluding their domestic competitors from the start, they would make the gap to those below them permanently unbridgeable.

So that as was revealed last night, the so-called "Founder Members" would not be able to be relegated for the first 20 years of the competition, whilst the position of the other (invited) Members would be subject to "review". They claim that this review would be based on on-field competitivemess, but my guess is that it if the others weren't pulling in the TV audiences etc, then the Founders would find a way of replacing them, regardless of where they finished in the table.


Edited by Territorial - 21 Oct 2020 at 11:44am
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What a load of wank.   Heard Steve McClaren talking about how great it will be to have these big games every week.  No it wont. The latter stages of the Champions League are the few times the big clubs play eac other and it makes it relatively rare and special event in a historic tournament.  If they played every week or semi regularly it would become routine and boring.  Also the tournament itself has no history.  YAWN.
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

What a load of wank.   Heard Steve McClaren talking about how great it will be to have these big games every week.  No it wont. The latter stages of the Champions League are the few times the big clubs play eac other and it makes it relatively rare and special event in a historic tournament.  If they played every week or semi regularly it would become routine and boring.  Also the tournament itself has no history.  YAWN.

Very true.

But I don't think we should overlook one key difference between England and the other "big" countries. In England, winning the League is usually valued by most supporters far more highly than succeeding in Europe.

For example, when Ferguson took over at MU, his objective was to "knock Liverpool off their perch" by winning the League, not to emulate Busby by winning the European Cup (Fergie's record in Europe was quite poor). And when he achieved that, Liverpool fans weren't mollified by winning the Champions League etc, they were desperate to win the PL above all else. Even over at Man City, where the owners (and Pep) clearly prioritise the CL, their fans aren't marching on the Etihad each time they fail - they are reasonably satisfied if they win the PL.

By contrast, the CL is everything to Real Madrid - win that and it doesn't matter if Atletico or Barca win La Liga. While games against the rest mean nothing, since they are pretty much guaranteed to win. Sevilla have taken it to another level, where they have all but given up on La Liga, to specialise on the EL and CL.

Meanwhile, fans of Juve, Bayern and PSG are getting increasingly bored by winning their domestic league, season-in season-out.
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