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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
We're decent enough..
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


Thank f**k
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


Thank f**k
Brendan there as insightful and cutting as ever, good man!
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The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
We're decent enough..
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
Look if planning made the comment that there are only 2 styles of football, well you know. But I don't believe you actually believe that. FIFA and UEFA should disband their technical committees, just chat with Kenny and Mccarthy to understand the only 2 football philosophies. 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
Look if planning made the comment that there are only 2 styles of football, well you know. But I don't believe you actually believe that. FIFA and UEFA should disband their technical committees, just chat with Kenny and Mccarthy to understand the only 2 football philosophies. 

Now you are being wilfully ignorant, again to deflect from addressing the point. I've already stated that there are multiple ways to play a passing/possession based game. When it comes down to it though, there are only two broad, overarching philosophies - you either want to pass the ball as much as possible, or you want to avoid passing the ball as much as possible. The specific way you go about that is up for debate, but that is the essential nub of the issue. For decades, Ireland's approach was to actively avoid passing the ball wherever possible. Anyone who thinks that remains a viable approach is living in a fantasy world.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:55pm
Lads we know ye are talking to each other so there is no need to constantly quote. It's making it unreadable! 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Lads we know ye are talking to each other so there is no need to constantly quote. It's making it unreadable! 
Fair point!"
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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 10:13pm
If there is more than one way to play possession based football then there is more than one way to play direct football. Compare Ireland and Norway in the 90s for example. How do you categorise a low block counter attacking team with average possession stats of 30%? Possession based? What is  the cut-off for % possession before you say they are not a passing team? A small country like Ireland can't afford to be ideologically tied to a style of football, particularly one dependent on a pool of players with good technical ability.
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