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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


Thank f**k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


Thank f**k
Brendan there as insightful and cutting as ever, good man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
Look if planning made the comment that there are only 2 styles of football, well you know. But I don't believe you actually believe that. FIFA and UEFA should disband their technical committees, just chat with Kenny and Mccarthy to understand the only 2 football philosophies. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

This constant nonsensical argument that there are somehow only two kinds of football - Kennyball or Hoofball - is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

No one said "Kennyball" or "hoofball", it's a choice between possession based football and longball football. There are different forms of possession based football - you can be a quick-passing counter-attacking side, you can be a slow-building "death by a thousand cuts" side, you can be a pass-and-move side, etc. It has to be one of those though. There is only one way to play how Ireland did previously, it's to launch long balls towards the striker/the channels and bypass the midfield. Currently, our best striker is a technical, 5'7 attacker - even if we wanted to, it would be pointless launching long balls up to him. It amazes me that some people just can't let go of something that has been discarded by basically everyone else since the 90's.
So you still think it is either possession based or long ball? And that is the only alternative, all you would need to do is have a cursory watch of Championship football to see a wide variety of styles and tactics.

You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't. For 30 years, we were a team who didn't pass the ball, we either launched it indiscriminately or we played 50/50's. When we started doing this, there were a sizeable minority of teams who took a similar approach to us - by 2019, we were among the final laggards still clinging desperately to a dead technology. You don't need to have 70% of the possession every game (I would actually say our best performances under Kenny have been when we've had 40-45% of the ball), but you do need to get on the football as much as possible, and keep it when you do.
"You are a team who passes the ball or you are a team that doesn't"
That is so evidently not the case that no further comment is necessary. 
 


In other words, you can't comment because you can't dispute the point. Enjoy watching highlights of the good old days launching longballs at Simon Cox.
Look if planning made the comment that there are only 2 styles of football, well you know. But I don't believe you actually believe that. FIFA and UEFA should disband their technical committees, just chat with Kenny and Mccarthy to understand the only 2 football philosophies. 

Now you are being wilfully ignorant, again to deflect from addressing the point. I've already stated that there are multiple ways to play a passing/possession based game. When it comes down to it though, there are only two broad, overarching philosophies - you either want to pass the ball as much as possible, or you want to avoid passing the ball as much as possible. The specific way you go about that is up for debate, but that is the essential nub of the issue. For decades, Ireland's approach was to actively avoid passing the ball wherever possible. Anyone who thinks that remains a viable approach is living in a fantasy world.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:55pm
Lads we know ye are talking to each other so there is no need to constantly quote. It's making it unreadable! 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Lads we know ye are talking to each other so there is no need to constantly quote. It's making it unreadable! 
Fair point!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 10:13pm
If there is more than one way to play possession based football then there is more than one way to play direct football. Compare Ireland and Norway in the 90s for example. How do you categorise a low block counter attacking team with average possession stats of 30%? Possession based? What is  the cut-off for % possession before you say they are not a passing team? A small country like Ireland can't afford to be ideologically tied to a style of football, particularly one dependent on a pool of players with good technical ability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 10:59am
Be interesting to see the reaction from the French will be for qualifiers, looking at age bracket of players they won't lose many players to retirement (probably only Giroud 36 perhaps Lloris who is 35)

Deschamps will more the likely leave with Zidane heavily linked to take over.

I still think they'll destroy us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darman28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 11:32am
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Be interesting to see the reaction from the French will be for qualifiers, looking at age bracket of players they won't lose many players to retirement (probably only Giroud 36 perhaps Lloris who is 35)

Deschamps will more the likely leave with Zidane heavily linked to take over.

I still think they'll destroy us

Maybe Benzema will retire too.

I think our best hope with France is that fatigue/injuries will set in on their top players come March with the way the domestic/European features are so congested this season , on top of the long world cup.. FYI I am not wishing injury on any player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 11:41am
Originally posted by darman28 darman28 wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Be interesting to see the reaction from the French will be for qualifiers, looking at age bracket of players they won't lose many players to retirement (probably only Giroud 36 perhaps Lloris who is 35)

Deschamps will more the likely leave with Zidane heavily linked to take over.

I still think they'll destroy us

Maybe Benzema will retire too.

I think our best hope with France is that fatigue/injuries will set in on their top players come March with the way the domestic/European features are so congested this season , on top of the long world cup.. FYI I am not wishing injury on any player.

Yeah I doubt Benzema will play again for them, he seemed pretty annoyed and probably burnt a few bridges with not accepting the invitation to come back (if only to sit in the stands) for the final
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notpropaganda73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 11:53am
I think it'd be typical of us to put in a heroic performance against France at home and nick a draw, only to mess it all up by losing to Greece.

On paper though we shouldn't have a hope in hell, especially because of France's midfield talent. Lads like Camavinga are so much more mobile and of higher quality than anything we can put out, I feel as though the pattern of the game will be complete French domination of the ball and imo they have too much quality up front not to create and score chances with that much possession. 

France will likely give us plenty of opportunities the other way so I don't think it'll be a 0-0 in Dublin anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Be interesting to see the reaction from the French will be for qualifiers, looking at age bracket of players they won't lose many players to retirement (probably only Giroud 36 perhaps Lloris who is 35)

Deschamps will more the likely leave with Zidane heavily linked to take over.

I still think they'll destroy us

They’ll replace Giroud and Lloris with two better players in Benzema and Maignan! Wouldn’t hold out much hope of us getting anything from them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Be interesting to see the reaction from the French will be for qualifiers, looking at age bracket of players they won't lose many players to retirement (probably only Giroud 36 perhaps Lloris who is 35)

Deschamps will more the likely leave with Zidane heavily linked to take over.

I still think they'll destroy us

They’ll replace Giroud and Lloris with two better players in Benzema and Maignan! Wouldn’t hold out much hope of us getting anything from them.
I'd be shocked if Benzema doesn't retire. Plenty of options for them there anyway with Kolo Muani and Thuram.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2022 at 12:19pm
while great on paper they didn't look great sheikhs for much of the tournament including the first 78 minutes yesterday. there's always a chance in qualifiers hence why i'm not as downbeat about our chances in march.
"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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