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English PL 2018/2019

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TonyNotJack View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2019 at 7:43pm
Eight years since there wasn't a Welsh team in the PL.If they'd gone the 10 years they could have officially started a petition to change the name to the English and Welsh premier league. The dream is over.
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Hmmm, Goodness, I must say

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2019 at 10:15pm
Not going to miss Colin and the none stop bitching in the Prem next season that's for sure .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuntysCousin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2019 at 11:33pm
Ah don't worry CM, Dyche does enough of it to make up for his loss Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2019 at 12:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 8:31am
Originally posted by HuntysCousin HuntysCousin wrote:

Ah don't worry CM, Dyche does enough of it to make up for his loss Wink
 
 
Cracking manager Sean Dyche.
Thumbs Up.
 
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Hmmm, Goodness, I must say

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

Originally posted by HuntysCousin HuntysCousin wrote:

Ah don't worry CM, Dyche does enough of it to make up for his loss Wink
 
 
Cracking manager Sean Dyche.
Thumbs Up.
 
Hey not to worry DM as Hunty is just doing a bit of fishing that's all Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 8:41am
It would be nice to see Man city finish off the job with some early goals today.
 
De Bruyne to feature?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

It would be nice to see Man city finish off the job with some early goals today.
 
De Bruyne to feature?

Good to see the league go down to the last day. Doesn't happen often enough.

Relegation and top 4 all sorted so no drama there. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 11:07am
A handled winner by Sterling in the ninth minute of injury time would be hilarious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

A few bumps and bruises along the way away aside, the title is done. It's over. Liverpool fans are in the majority who don't realise this and tbf it's understandable.

The big question for me is can they do the big double. I think they'll go very close. If you asked me to stick a bet on at value, I'd think they can get it done.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

A few bumps and bruises along the way away aside, the title is done. It's over. Liverpool fans are in the majority who don't realise this and tbf it's understandable.

The big question for me is can they do the big double. I think they'll go very close. If you asked me to stick a bet on at value, I'd think they can get it done.
Magical LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 11:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-football-s-new-age-neutralises-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358

 
Good article
 
The last few weeks of football made me think about the point being made in this article
 
A good system is outweighing the sum of its parts more and more these days in the game. City and Liverpool have been incredibly consistent this season, but looking through their starting XI's many weeks, they have several players in them that are nothing special individually, but are just playing well in the system.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-football-s-new-age-neutralises-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358

 
Good article
 
The last few weeks of football made me think about the point being made in this article
 
A good system is outweighing the sum of its parts more and more these days in the game. City and Liverpool have been incredibly consistent this season, but looking through their starting XI's many weeks, they have several players in them that are nothing special individually, but are just playing well in the system.
 
 

It made me think about what Niall Quinn said after Liverpool beat Barca. If Messi came available for say 150 million, i dont think Liverpool or City would go for him. He's an otherworldly talent, sure, but if he's in your team you either unconsciously or consciously make your gameplan about him, probably inhibiting other players in the system. Not to mention that that money could buy 3 top class players for the team. 

What i feel those two teams have done is minimise individual roles to great effect to the point that nearly any player can come in and thrive in the system. Take Ox at Liverpool for example - 35 million for him raised an awful lot of eyebrows as he wasn't pulling up trees at arsenal. Klopp gives him a simple role of shuttling the ball from defence to attack through the midfield and he becomes extremely effective. It's why i think (feel free to laugh at this, but i'm gonna put it out there anyway) that if either team had to pick one player from United to have in their squad, Lingard would feature highly on the list, as he thrived given a simple link-man role under Mourinho, which would suit a system such as that at the top 2. Every player has a defined and relatively minimialist part to play in Liverpool and City, and it has worked excellently. 

Even their best players have just been almost machine-like in their consistent contributions - comparatively much less conjuring of magic out of nothing than other teams, but constantly creating or finishing well-worked moves.


Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 13 May 2019 at 12:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:38pm
The Ox is a good example.
Zinchenko another, a player who was up for sale last summer who fitted seamlessly into left back this season. Despite not actually being able to defend he did a good job, decent on the ball and dropped into a midfield area when City were in possession.
 
Matip and Origi are others that spring to mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-football-s-new-age-neutralises-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358

 
Good article
 
The last few weeks of football made me think about the point being made in this article
 
A good system is outweighing the sum of its parts more and more these days in the game. City and Liverpool have been incredibly consistent this season, but looking through their starting XI's many weeks, they have several players in them that are nothing special individually, but are just playing well in the system.
 
 
Very interesting, persuasive article (imo).

Yet when asked whether this City is the greatest (English) team ever, someone suggested the Man U 98/99 team might disagree:

And if you look at that squad, there are arguably more players who were "nothing special individually", eg:
Gary Neville - 34 starts (0 subs);
Ronny Johnsen - 19 (3);
Nicky Butt - 22 (9);
Phil Neville - 19 (9);
Jesper Blonqvist - 20 (5);
Henning Berg - 10 (6);
Wes Brown - 11 (3).

And even some of the top players didn't play that many games - Cole 26 (6); Giggs 20 (4); Scholes 24 (7).

Of course they also had a number of great players who played plenty - Schmeichel, Irwin, Stam, Keane, Yorke, Beckham. But are they notably better individually than City's equivalents? Surely not.

The point being that for all Ferguson's amazing powers of motivation and man management, he surely can't also have been that oblivious to the importance of organisation, tactics and system etc?

I mean, in the CL they managed four group draws with Barca and Bayern, then overcame Inter, Juve and Bayern in the knockout stages. I know eg that Keane produced some heroic performances in that run but still, you can't just rely on individual spirit and commitment etc to get you through nine games of that intensity against opponents of that calibre, esp when also closing out the PL and FA Cup at the same time?




Edited by Territorial - 13 May 2019 at 1:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

It made me think about what Niall Quinn said after Liverpool beat Barca. If Messi came available for say 150 million, i dont think Liverpool or City would go for him. He's an otherworldly talent, sure, but if he's in your team you either unconsciously or consciously make your gameplan about him, probably inhibiting other players in the system. Not to mention that that money could buy 3 top class players for the team. 
I understand the point, but if the presence of such players ends up "inhibiting" other players in the team instead of lifting them, then surely they're the players who should go, not the superstar?

I always remember a conversation I had about 30 years ago with some Dutch guys I worked with and we were giving it the old "Best vs Cruyff" debate.

Regardless of which was the "better" player, they impressed upon me how JC's true greatness lay not just in his skill and technique etc, marvellous though they were, but in the way he personally raised the game for Ajax, Barca, Netherlands etc, by the force of his intelligence and personality. 

The same could be said for Pele, Maradona, Platini, Zidane etc, who turned already excellent teams into outstanding ones, or even at a lesser level, Cantona at MU or Keegan at Hamburg.

Anyhow, something tells me that Guardiola wouldn't require Messi to come into the Etihad on trial!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-football-s-new-age-neutralises-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358

 
Good article
 
The last few weeks of football made me think about the point being made in this article
 
A good system is outweighing the sum of its parts more and more these days in the game. City and Liverpool have been incredibly consistent this season, but looking through their starting XI's many weeks, they have several players in them that are nothing special individually, but are just playing well in the system.
 
 

I was thinking that as well during the semi finals - well until Ajax capitulated LOL

A comparison of Barcelona players and Liverpool's and what those players have won says it all- it just seemed it was the managers and their systems that prevailed  
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