Dev or Collins

Just wondering what people oppinions of the two are?

Glen: "Anyone who votes for Dev is a ****"

Only recently finished reading an article on U Boats in the Second World War and Chruchill was convinced that the Irish were helping them so sent a bunch of destroyers around the coast to find evidence. They found none but still the story persists. The thinking is that if Churchill found some evidence it would give him a green light to invade (like he was going to do in Norway before the Germans got there first) and Dev got on the auld radio and affirmed Irish neutrality and said that if England invade Ireland would side with Germany and if Germany invaded he would side with the Allies.  Dev was a politician and a fighter (he was at Boland's Mill in 1916) whereas Collins was just a fighter. I have great respect for both men and try not get caught up in the politics of that time as both men thought they were doing the best for Ireland. 

Why do e have to chose between both, im not talkin about just in this poll, but in general.

collins every time for me.if dev was a great politican then why didnt he go negotiate the treaty in london?collins was caught between a rock and a hard place.all he wanted was peace for the irish people.he was never going to get the 32 counties and dev new this and thats why he chickened out and made collins the fall guy for it.saw a great docu. about dev/churchill during ww11 have to say though he was a cute hoor alright.

Talking on athlonecelt's point, the need to decide between the two is because the memory of Collins is firmly rooted in Cumann na gGaedhael/Fine Gael history and DeV is obviously the founding father of Fianna Fáil. Bothplayed vital roles in the War of Independence, and the fateful decision to turn the guns inwards in 1922 was one which signalled Ireland's darkest hour.

I have no qualms with DeValera's decision to walk out of a partitioned Dáil Éireann, but the fact he reentered in 1926 when the dust had settled and many of the Volunteers and Free State Forces had been buried as a result of one another to me demonstrates nothing more that a desire for power.

Collins, as someone has already pointed out, was not a politician; nor was he actually the leader of the Army (Richard Mulcahy was), but he was a pivotal cog in the guerilla tactics necessary to beat an imperial arsenal; it owuld have been impossible to match by force. History has clouded the timeline of events from 1920-1922, whereby Ireland has already been partitioned by the time of the Anglo Irish Treaty - and it was clear that further force would be necessary to oppose the border of convenience. Sadly, however, the opportunity for freedom to achieve freedom was curtailed by the onslaught of the Irish Civil War. It should not be forgotted that the Treaty was largely welcomed by nationanlists in the north of Ireland, as it was regarded as an opportunity to negotiate the end to partition, as well as stop the sectarian onslaught led from the front by Crown Forces.

Ultimately, it is a difficult decision to make, and one which thankfully nobody has to. On the one hand you have the man who achieved a settlement from the British Government for a degree of separatism and own Government; but on the other hand is the figurehead for the partitionist party and party of the ex-Unionist and Commonwealth -- C na nG/FG. Juxtaposed you have DeValera, who stood by the principles of the 1916 Proclamation of an Irish Republic for 32 Counties or bust; however, he also did exactly what he said he wouldn't some 4 years later, only by then had allowed anti-Treatyites to engage in a war agains the fledgling state and engage in open war on the streets against former Comrades. Both men, moreover, have been the subject of media attention, and some very innacurate portrayals (namely Neil Jordan's Michael Collins, 1996), leading to very clouded judgements, worsened by the continued split in Irish Politics, dating back to the aforementioned period...

For me the Vision Dev had for us has metamorsified everything that has gone wrong, Dancing at the Crossroads my arse