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Declan Rice

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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Crap senior Crap senior wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

This fella will be as good as Roy Keane

No chance. Keane was awesome. 


Rice is just as good and will only get better
just another reason to slate Keane and o Neill because they didn't cap rice. 


Keane and MON were muppets.    But Rice will be the England captain withing 2-3yrs and be playing for a top 4 club in Europe.

He could be made king of england tomorrow and it makes no difference. He will still never be in the same class as roy keane. NEVER 


He already has made it into the same class as Roy Keane. Both betrayed their country.

YBIG, we had an agreement. I do the thinking. You don't.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Jesus Navas starting for Spain (at right back) and Ryan Babel starting for Holland are not average players at all though. They’re packed full of world class players those top sides and would all hammer England 4-0, apart from most recently when England went to Spain and won but that doesn’t count. 

Funnily enough the Croatian team that knocked England out of the World Cup don’t particularly have world class players in every position, but when it mattered they bet England. 

That is my main argument. When England play good teams in big tournament games, they lose. 

My secondary argument is that they have several average players, which they do. Pickford, Keane, Maguire and Dier especially are not good enough and have been / will be found out again against the top teams. They have two absolutely unreal players in Kane and Sterling, and then they have some good players like the ones you mentioned. They lack top class players in midfield, defense and in goal. That’s fine against Colombia, Sweden, Czech Republic and Montenegro but it won’t cut it against the big boys next summer in my opinion. 

When England play mickey mouse games against good teams in the Nations League where nothing is on the line they can win all they want. 

This argument won’t be proved right or wrong until the next Euros in any case as England won’t play a meaningful game before that. 

I won’t be particularly bothered if they win or are humiliated in the Nations League finals. Sure didn’t Kyle Walker tweet sarcastically recently enough saying it was always his ‘dream’ to win such a tournament. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Fancy answering my question though?

I asked about Holland Thumbs Up

No problem. 

We talk about young English talent coming through? 

The Dutch have without doubt the best youngsters coming through at the moment. EDIT: (Apart from France) And several of these lads are already mainstays in the team. 

Not sure if you watched Ajax tear Real Madrid apart, but that side was packed full of youthful Dutch players. 

People describe Declan Rice as a young midfielder /defender with the world at his feet, but he’s a million miles off the likes of De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong. 

Not to mention Donny Van de Beek and Patrick Kluivert who are both serious players in the making. 

The Dutch have turned a corner recently and are without doubt on the way back, they’d be my underdog selection for the Euros to be honest. They’ve no world class striker which England do, but England don’t have any world class midfielders or defenders.

They were fantastic in the second half against the Germans last night and very unlucky to lose that game. But I suppose they won’t be too worried as they’ve only got to finish ahead of the Nordies, Belarus and Estonia to qualify. 

I don’t believe the Nations League is a huge barometer of a teams qaulity but the Dutch managed to defeat both Germany and France in their division, equally as impressive as England’s results, if not more so. 


Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it contained three starters so it wasn't "packed" full of youthful Dutch talent.

Liverpool have two outstanding young defenders in Gomez and Alexander Arnold who are playing with one of the best club sides in Europe at the moment (am I wrong?)

Memphis Depay was sold because of Rashfords emergence, Daley Blind was sold because he couldn't get into a United side that contained how many English defenders who struggle to even make Southgates squad?

Justin (not Patrick) Kluivert cannot get into an average Roma side at the moment and has had a pretty poor goals/assist return too.

Donny Van De Beek is one year younger than Delli Alli, who has performed consistently in the PL and held his own at various times in the CL. So are we going to blow up Van De Beek but ignore that Alli if was sold in the morning who would easily command the same fee if not double what De Beek would?

Bearing in mind Barca had no problem shelling out €75million + to sign De Jong so him playing domestically in Holland has nothing got to do with a transfer fee in comparison to that in England.

The problem with the average Irish football fan is that they allow their dislike of England to give a fair and balanced opinion.

In a nutshell you have someone ignoring the potential of some of England's best young players but bigging up a chap who can't get a game for Roma.


Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Jesus Navas starting for Spain (at right back) and Ryan Babel starting for Holland are not average players at all though. They’re packed full of world class players those top sides and would all hammer England 4-0, apart from most recently when England went to Spain and won but that doesn’t count. 

Funnily enough the Croatian team that knocked England out of the World Cup don’t particularly have world class players in every position, but when it mattered they bet England. 

That is my main argument. When England play good teams in big tournament games, they lose. 

My secondary argument is that they have several average players, which they do. Pickford, Keane, Maguire and Dier especially are not good enough and have been / will be found out again against the top teams. They have two absolutely unreal players in Kane and Sterling, and then they have some good players like the ones you mentioned. They lack top class players in midfield, defense and in goal. That’s fine against Colombia, Sweden, Czech Republic and Montenegro but it won’t cut it against the big boys next summer in my opinion. 

When England play mickey mouse games against good teams in the Nations League where nothing is on the line they can win all they want. 

This argument won’t be proved right or wrong until the next Euros in any case as England won’t play a meaningful game before that. 

I won’t be particularly bothered if they win or are humiliated in the Nations League finals. Sure didn’t Kyle Walker tweet sarcastically recently enough saying it was always his ‘dream’ to win such a tournament. 

I would give the likes of Rashford, Hudson Odi, Sancho, Rice, Gomez, Alexander Arnold etc time and not dismiss England like you did previously when all of those guys are 22 and under.

Why say a team with some of the most talented young players in European football won't achieve anything with England when none of these players are anywhere near their prime? Confused

It makes zero sense.


Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmy Raggatip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Fancy answering my question though?

I asked about Holland Thumbs Up

No problem. 

We talk about young English talent coming through? 

The Dutch have without doubt the best youngsters coming through at the moment. EDIT: (Apart from France) And several of these lads are already mainstays in the team. 




this is all subjective though isn't it? Whereas England have actually been winning trophies at youth level in the last few years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Fancy answering my question though?

I asked about Holland Thumbs Up

No problem. 

We talk about young English talent coming through? 

The Dutch have without doubt the best youngsters coming through at the moment. EDIT: (Apart from France) And several of these lads are already mainstays in the team. 

Not sure if you watched Ajax tear Real Madrid apart, but that side was packed full of youthful Dutch players. 

People describe Declan Rice as a young midfielder /defender with the world at his feet, but he’s a million miles off the likes of De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong. 

Not to mention Donny Van de Beek and Patrick Kluivert who are both serious players in the making. 

The Dutch have turned a corner recently and are without doubt on the way back, they’d be my underdog selection for the Euros to be honest. They’ve no world class striker which England do, but England don’t have any world class midfielders or defenders.

They were fantastic in the second half against the Germans last night and very unlucky to lose that game. But I suppose they won’t be too worried as they’ve only got to finish ahead of the Nordies, Belarus and Estonia to qualify. 

I don’t believe the Nations League is a huge barometer of a teams qaulity but the Dutch managed to defeat both Germany and France in their division, equally as impressive as England’s results, if not more so. 


Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it contained three starters so it wasn't "packed" full of youthful Dutch talent.

Liverpool have two outstanding young defenders in Gomez and Alexander Arnold who are playing with one of the best club sides in Europe at the moment (am I wrong?)

Memphis Depay was sold because of Rashfords emergence, Daley Blind was sold because he couldn't get into a United side that contained how many English defenders who struggle to even make Southgates squad?

Justin (not Patrick) Kluivert cannot get into an average Roma side at the moment and has had a pretty poor goals/assist return too.

Donny Van De Beek is one year younger than Delli Alli, who has performed consistently in the PL and held his own at various times in the CL. So are we going to blow up Van De Beek but ignore that Alli if was sold in the morning who would easily command the same fee if not double what De Beek would?

Bearing in mind Barca had no problem shelling out €75million + to sign De Jong so him playing domestically in Holland has nothing got to do with a transfer fee in comparison to that in England.

The problem with the average Irish football fan is that they allow their dislike of England to give a fair and balanced opinion.

In a nutshell you have someone ignoring the potential of some of England's best young players but bigging up a chap who can't get a game for Roma.

Didn’t England start some young lad tonight who has never played for chelsea? What’s difference between him and Kluveirt who has played a few games for Roma and several for Ajax?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:45pm
Yeah, pretty impressive list since 2017 - 

England u20 World Champions

England u19 European Champions

England u17 World Champions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Fancy answering my question though?

I asked about Holland Thumbs Up

No problem. 

We talk about young English talent coming through? 

The Dutch have without doubt the best youngsters coming through at the moment. EDIT: (Apart from France) And several of these lads are already mainstays in the team. 

Not sure if you watched Ajax tear Real Madrid apart, but that side was packed full of youthful Dutch players. 

People describe Declan Rice as a young midfielder /defender with the world at his feet, but he’s a million miles off the likes of De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong. 

Not to mention Donny Van de Beek and Patrick Kluivert who are both serious players in the making. 

The Dutch have turned a corner recently and are without doubt on the way back, they’d be my underdog selection for the Euros to be honest. They’ve no world class striker which England do, but England don’t have any world class midfielders or defenders.

They were fantastic in the second half against the Germans last night and very unlucky to lose that game. But I suppose they won’t be too worried as they’ve only got to finish ahead of the Nordies, Belarus and Estonia to qualify. 

I don’t believe the Nations League is a huge barometer of a teams qaulity but the Dutch managed to defeat both Germany and France in their division, equally as impressive as England’s results, if not more so. 


Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it contained three starters so it wasn't "packed" full of youthful Dutch talent.

Liverpool have two outstanding young defenders in Gomez and Alexander Arnold who are playing with one of the best club sides in Europe at the moment (am I wrong?)

Memphis Depay was sold because of Rashfords emergence, Daley Blind was sold because he couldn't get into a United side that contained how many English defenders who struggle to even make Southgates squad?

Justin (not Patrick) Kluivert cannot get into an average Roma side at the moment and has had a pretty poor goals/assist return too.

Donny Van De Beek is one year younger than Delli Alli, who has performed consistently in the PL and held his own at various times in the CL. So are we going to blow up Van De Beek but ignore that Alli if was sold in the morning who would easily command the same fee if not double what De Beek would?

Bearing in mind Barca had no problem shelling out €75million + to sign De Jong so him playing domestically in Holland has nothing got to do with a transfer fee in comparison to that in England.

The problem with the average Irish football fan is that they allow their dislike of England to give a fair and balanced opinion.

In a nutshell you have someone ignoring the potential of some of England's best young players but bigging up a chap who can't get a game for Roma.

Didn’t England start some young lad tonight who has never played for chelsea? What’s difference between him and Kluveirt who has played a few games for Roma and several for Ajax?

He's played 20 odd times for Chelsea tbf.

The difference is Hudson Odi will more than likely be a regular at his club, Kluveirt for all his promise at Ajax (in a poor league) struggles to nail down a start at Roma consistently and is out of the Dutch international squad as a result.

One's career is on the up, the other's has stagnated somewhat.

Hudson Odi will probably command a fee of what £40million and will go to one of the Europes biggest clubs in the summer if he does leave Chelsea (who in truth are a bigger draw than Roma even if he does stay)


Edited by Green Devil - 25 Mar 2019 at 11:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Fancy answering my question though?

I asked about Holland Thumbs Up

No problem. 

We talk about young English talent coming through? 

The Dutch have without doubt the best youngsters coming through at the moment. EDIT: (Apart from France) And several of these lads are already mainstays in the team. 

Not sure if you watched Ajax tear Real Madrid apart, but that side was packed full of youthful Dutch players. 

People describe Declan Rice as a young midfielder /defender with the world at his feet, but he’s a million miles off the likes of De Ligt and Frenkie De Jong. 

Not to mention Donny Van de Beek and Patrick Kluivert who are both serious players in the making. 

The Dutch have turned a corner recently and are without doubt on the way back, they’d be my underdog selection for the Euros to be honest. They’ve no world class striker which England do, but England don’t have any world class midfielders or defenders.

They were fantastic in the second half against the Germans last night and very unlucky to lose that game. But I suppose they won’t be too worried as they’ve only got to finish ahead of the Nordies, Belarus and Estonia to qualify. 

I don’t believe the Nations League is a huge barometer of a teams qaulity but the Dutch managed to defeat both Germany and France in their division, equally as impressive as England’s results, if not more so. 


Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, it contained three starters so it wasn't "packed" full of youthful Dutch talent.

Liverpool have two outstanding young defenders in Gomez and Alexander Arnold who are playing with one of the best club sides in Europe at the moment (am I wrong?)

Memphis Depay was sold because of Rashfords emergence, Daley Blind was sold because he couldn't get into a United side that contained how many English defenders who struggle to even make Southgates squad?

Justin (not Patrick) Kluivert cannot get into an average Roma side at the moment and has had a pretty poor goals/assist return too.

Donny Van De Beek is one year younger than Delli Alli, who has performed consistently in the PL and held his own at various times in the CL. So are we going to blow up Van De Beek but ignore that Alli if was sold in the morning who would easily command the same fee if not double what De Beek would?

Bearing in mind Barca had no problem shelling out €75million + to sign De Jong so him playing domestically in Holland has nothing got to do with a transfer fee in comparison to that in England.

The problem with the average Irish football fan is that they allow their dislike of England to give a fair and balanced opinion.

In a nutshell you have someone ignoring the potential of some of England's best young players but bigging up a chap who can't get a game for Roma.

Didn’t England start some young lad tonight who has never played for chelsea? What’s difference between him and Kluveirt who has played a few games for Roma and several for Ajax?

He's played 20 odd times for Chelsea tbf.

The difference is Hudson Odi will more than likely be a regular at his club, Kluveirt for all his promise at Ajax (in a poor league) struggles to nail down a start at Roma consistently and is out of the Dutch international squad as a result.

One's career is on the up, the other's has stagnated somewhat.

Hudson Odi will probably command a fee of what £40million and will go to one of the Europes biggest clubs in the summer if he does leave Chelsea (who in truth are a bigger draw than Roma even if he does stay)

Kluveirt has played over twenty times for Roma this season? Who are no worse than this current woeful Chelsea team. 

Anyway this is getting sidetracked into a Kluveirt vs Hudson Odi arguement. 

My belief is that Holland have as much young talent coming through as England and that by the time the Euros come around, the Dutch along with several other top European teams would beat England. 

SkySports bigging up the ‘greatest league in the world’ and a few underage trophies won’t change my mind on that. 

Let’s see how England get on next summer as there’s no real argument to be had until then. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

This fella will be as good as Roy Keane

No chance. Keane was awesome. 


Rice is just as good and will only get better

Nowhere near as good a player as Keane, but that isn't meant as a dog on Rice. People underestimate still to this day how good Keane was (imo he would have made any 11 in the world for 3 or 4 years without a doubt).

Rice has a million miles to go to that. He's not as quick as Keane and while Rice's passing is quite good, Keane was a superb passer of the ball - another thing that was hugely underplayed about him.

The funniest thing about Rice is that it's literally only weeks since some were wondering would Rice even get 5/10 caps for England. Could he ever displace such football Goliaths like Eric Dier? It will be interesting to see if Rice, Henderson, Dier are all fit for their Dutch game in June, if Rice gets the nod. If he does, there's a good chance he won't be moved from that position with England for a long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:03am
But it's rather foolish to dismiss their success as merely "a few underage trophies" , when their young players are winning tournaments and the Dutch haven't been as frequent. Never mind their senior side not even qualifying for tournaments either while England done really well at the last World Cup.

If you're including Holland as a top European side based on them losing to the weakest German side in over a decade, I think this argument has run it's course for a night.

I will report back to this if/when England meet Holland next summer and we shall have a little wager Thumbs Up


Edited by Green Devil - 26 Mar 2019 at 12:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:08am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

This fella will be as good as Roy Keane

No chance. Keane was awesome. 


Rice is just as good and will only get better

Nowhere near as good a player as Keane, but that isn't meant as a dog on Rice. People underestimate still to this day how good Keane was (imo he would have made any 11 in the world for 3 or 4 years without a doubt).

Rice has a million miles to go to that. He's not as quick as Keane and while Rice's passing is quite good, Keane was a superb passer of the ball - another thing that was hugely underplayed about him.

The funniest thing about Rice is that it's literally only weeks since some were wondering would Rice even get 5/10 caps for England. Could he ever displace such football Goliaths like Eric Dier? It will be interesting to see if Rice, Henderson, Dier are all fit for their Dutch game in June, if Rice gets the nod. If he does, there's a good chance he won't be moved from that position with England for a long time.

A lot of the media outlets reckon he'll just keep the jersey now.

Not because of his debut, but just due to the limitations of Dier and Hendo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 12:26am
As a defensive midfielder, there's no doubt he's better than Henderson or Dier. Dier is miles off Rice in defensive situations. Henderson covers great ground when fully fit but again he's not as good as Rice at reading the play defensively.

That's just my opinion. I think Southgate will look to rotate though, to build a squad for the Euros. If Rices club form stays near the level it is, he'll be one of their key players in next year's Euros. 

It could well be a case of Southgate going with Rice plus 1 in games against the better sides like the Dutch. That English defence and keeper are still muck, they will need protecting. If Southgate gets a better keeper and one quality CB from somewhere, they'd have a serious shot at winning next year's Euros.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 26 Mar 2019 at 12:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 6:36am
He will be at a top 6 club either this summer or the next.

I assume Trap is taking the piss comparing him to Roy. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kerryman95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 2:24pm
I really hope the Roy Keane comparison is not someone being serious. Rice is a serious player, and will soon get a move to a top club but come on. Roy Keane is arguable the best centre midfielder the premier league has seen. Keane offered way more around the park at Rice's age, I know they played different positions but Rice has not show anywhere near that kind of ability going forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2019 at 6:07pm
I think you’ll find you did play for the north James


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2019 at 4:06am
Just saw Deco's picture with Harry Kane from 2014. Seems like he was using us. 
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