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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 48 minutes ago at 1:12pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 46 minutes ago at 1:14pm
Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

Can understand pausing these in one sense but I don't know if scientist's or researchers are going to be able to infer why these are occuring with Astrazenca and J and J vaccines and not the Mrna ones.

Or maybe they are occurring in mrna ones? 
Speculation I read last night - and it could be old news buy now - was what the pause in the US was so that healthcare professionals could get up to speed on how to identify sypmtom \ risks of clot developing from the vaccine and treat accordingly.

The number of cases is so low it would be very difficult to identify anything beyond this at present. I assume the expect more cases to arise as the cases I read about where post-jab day range of 6-12 days (could be wrong on the day range).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 44 minutes ago at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  
That was a point in time recommendation based on the manufacturer - since then more is known via the analysis done on millions ofjabs. France are already extending the number of weeks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 37 minutes ago at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  

But given you have no qualifications how do you know which ‘experts’ were right and which were wrong.

You were adamant the BMA were wrong. 

Come on, I’ll give you a helping hand to move these goalposts. 


Edited by Zinedine Kilbane 110 - 7 hours 21 minutes ago at 1:39pm

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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 24 minutes ago at 1:36pm
Originally posted by sausy sausy wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

So this does mean summer is cancelled?
 
Large bottles of cider and picnic benches won't see come together until 2022!

At least you have your bar! My plans are derailed, new bump for the missus means need to invest in the attic conversion this summer instead!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 14 minutes ago at 1:46pm
Originally posted by seanyshuffler seanyshuffler wrote:

Getting an extra 550'000 Pfizer shots over the next three months.

Some good news!
Positive news from Pfizer so soon after yesterday's negative news. It would be reassuring to know if NIAC were aware of this additional delivery. Have to assume they did.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 11 minutes ago at 1:49pm
I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 1 minutes ago at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  
That was a point in time recommendation based on the manufacturer - since then more is known via the analysis done on millions ofjabs. France are already extending the number of weeks. 

I know but he was talking about a few weeks ago when I expressed my opinion on it.  I didn’t say I was against it now.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 60 minutes ago at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  

But given you have no qualifications how do you know which ‘experts’ were right and which were wrong.

You were adamant the BMA were wrong. 

Come on, I’ll give you a helping hand to move these goalposts. 

I could ask the same question of you.  Why did you think the EMA were wrong if you have no qualifications.  Why do you favour the British approach if you have no qualifications to judge which experts and wrong and which are incorrect.  


Edited by Baldrick - 6 hours 58 minutes ago at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 46 minutes ago at 2:14pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


Surely they won’t stop production, that would be crazy at this point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 45 minutes ago at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  

But given you have no qualifications how do you know which ‘experts’ were right and which were wrong.

You were adamant the BMA were wrong. 

Come on, I’ll give you a helping hand to move these goalposts. 

I could ask the same question of you.  Why did you think the EMA were wrong if you have no qualifications.  Why do you favour the British approach if you have no qualifications to judge which experts and wrong and which are incorrect.  

If you recall I said I ‘trust’ the BMA on this as they are the experts. 
I didn’t say either approach was right or wrong. 
You specifically said they were wrong and I suggested you write to them and tell them so! 

Anyway, you grab that side and we lift on 3. 


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Dalymount79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 44 minutes ago at 2:16pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


Based on what Ursula Von Der Leyens saying today it looks like EU is politely moving away from these vaccines.  Denmark have suspended AZ fully. See @DaveKeating on twitter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 37 minutes ago at 2:23pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


Surely they won’t stop production, that would be crazy at this point

Yeah we need more. Loads of other countries will take them and they are believed to be very safe for people over 60.

I got my vaccine a few weeks ago and back then you didn’t know what you were getting until on the day (I got the blood clots, not the 5G)

Apparently now the UK are confirming if it’s Pfizer or AZ beforehand. I assume you can say no to the AZ and wait for one of the others. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sausy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 17 minutes ago at 2:43pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Originally posted by sausy sausy wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

So this does mean summer is cancelled?
 
Large bottles of cider and picnic benches won't see come together until 2022!

At least you have your bar! My plans are derailed, new bump for the missus means need to invest in the attic conversion this summer instead!
 
Congrats (I think!). Take McG's advise and throw money into crypto and that'll have the attic paid for before we ever get a vaccine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 12 minutes ago at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Of course sure didn’t I say that they know far more than I do.   I am not going against the medical experts though and coming up with my own half baked solutions and theories.   I would
Think the onus is on those going against the experts to show their credentials and prove how they are correct.  That is a crucial difference.  I do not proclaim to be an expert and I am far from
It but I do trust the medical experts rather than journalists and other commentators on Twitter and social media who become self proclaimed experts over night and castigate those that have worked in the field for years.  Others who are frustrated and impatient then agree with them as it sounds great. 

A few weeks ago you were saying the British medical association were wrong to give the vaccines 12 weeks apart.

Do you not think one of the oldest and most distinguished medical professionals in the world maybe know more than you and should be trusted to make this decision? 

Only time will tell which approach was best but quick decisions were and still are needed as people are dying every day. 

You left out that another host of experts did not recommend this route I.e the EMA. I trusted there decision on this. 

I wasn’t making up my own analysis on it and contradicting experts.  I was agreeing with the EMA approach.  

But given you have no qualifications how do you know which ‘experts’ were right and which were wrong.

You were adamant the BMA were wrong. 

Come on, I’ll give you a helping hand to move these goalposts. 

I could ask the same question of you.  Why did you think the EMA were wrong if you have no qualifications.  Why do you favour the British approach if you have no qualifications to judge which experts and wrong and which are incorrect.  

If you recall I said I ‘trust’ the BMA on this as they are the experts. 
I didn’t say either approach was right or wrong. 
You specifically said they were wrong and I suggested you write to them and tell them so! 

Anyway, you grab that side and we lift on 3. 


But it’s equally valid to ask why did you not trust the EMA.  What level of qualification did you have to not trust the EMA.  

I trust the EMA and still do and I think the cautious approach the right approach.  

The level of abuse and comments aimed at experts throughout this whole pandemic has been scandalous and you are attempting draw parallels between that and me saying that I believed the EMA approach was the correct one and that the UK approach in the absence of proven evidence was the wrong approach imo.  It was a risk that seems to have paid off and the evidence now really confirms that which is totally fair enough.  

I don’t think I was disparaging  to the British Medical association or would I think for one second I come near their expertise.  There are tight judgment calls being made all the time and these experts should be respected in my view and talk is cheap on Twitter and other social media.  

The same way I agree with the cautious approach from the US in relation to Johnson and Johnson and in Ireland with AZ until further evidence is available.  




Edited by Baldrick - 6 hours 7 minutes ago at 2:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 3 minutes ago at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


Based on what Ursula Von Der Leyens saying today it looks like EU is politely moving away from these vaccines.  Denmark have suspended AZ fully. See @DaveKeating on twitter.

Interesting and yet nphet get dogs abuse on Twitter some of the same
People who were saying we should do what Denmark were doing with regard to securing extra vaccines.  

There is a template at play here on Irish social media which is Ireland is terrible and let’s pick a country that is doing it the opposite way and they are great and we are backward.  

Throughout this whole thing many of the same heads have basically had an a la carte picking of strategies from different countries and many of them are polar opposites but are popular for a time.  


Edited by Baldrick - 6 hours 3 minutes ago at 2:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 minutes ago at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to see J and J and AZ back in use?

And will they stop producing or will deliveries still be met?


Based on what Ursula Von Der Leyens saying today it looks like EU is politely moving away from these vaccines.  Denmark have suspended AZ fully. See @DaveKeating on twitter.

Interesting and yet nphet get dogs abuse on Twitter some of the same
People who were saying we should do what Denmark were doing with regard to securing extra vaccines.  

There is a template at play here on Irish social media which is Ireland is terrible and let’s pick a country that is doing it the opposite way and they are great and we are backward.  

Throughout this whole thing many of the same heads have basically had an a la carte picking of strategies from different countries and many of them are polar opposites but are popular for a time.  

We should have taken Sweden's Herd Immunity approach and we'd be done with this nonsense by now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 minutes ago at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

they are canceling 2nd doses at the moment as they are prioritizing getting first doses.  

As a result they are taking a huge risk.  There are now people who have been told they won’t be getting their 2nd dose when they expected.  

Does anyone know the efficacy if you get 2nd dose 80 or 90 days after 1st dose.   No they don’t 

They have issued a statement saying there is no evidence it works beyond 3 weeks.  Massive game if roulette being played here. 

To call it roulette is ridiculous.

The British Medical association have approved this. You need to give them some credit.
Pfizer would have done tests on one dose and the BMA would have seen the results of this.

Pfizer are definitely not coming out and saying their drug does not work after 3 weeks. The question marks are around the efficiency after 3-12 weeks but the BMA would have seen trial data on this.

You are suggesting the vaccine enters cells and produces antibodies and t-cells for 21 days only and then they call it a day and remove themselves from the cells. 
In the real world the antibodies and t-cells stick around longer and the BMA would know this from similar vaccines.

I agree they handled it badly. They should have started the one dose from today rather than cancel existing appointments.

The difficulties with supply and distribution are forcing them to make this decision. I’m sure they would rather not have to but they believe it’s gives a greater number of people a fighting chance quicker.


Baldie stating the BMA are ‘taking a huge risk’ and playing ‘roulette’

Sound like you know more than the experts! 

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