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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:34pm
the CMO was on Dermot and Dave last week also.  Doubt it’s the 15 to 24. Probably more like the 24 to 34.  

I doubt Tommy Tiernan speaks to the 15 to 24 cohort.   It’s defiantly not through MSM Stations anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

the CMO was on Dermot and Dave last week also.  Doubt it’s the 15 to 24. Probably more like the 24 to 34.  

I doubt Tommy Tiernan speaks to the 15 to 24 cohort.   It’s defiantly not through MSM Stations anyway.
Maybe they could tailor the message 

Sign up some Instagram influencer who licks toilet seats or something

Obviously she'd have to say why it's a bad idea to lick toilet seats at the current time


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

the CMO was on Dermot and Dave last week also.  Doubt it’s the 15 to 24. Probably more like the 24 to 34.  

I doubt Tommy Tiernan speaks to the 15 to 24 cohort.   It’s defiantly not through MSM Stations anyway.
Maybe they could tailor the message 

Sign up some Instagram influencer who licks toilet seats or something

Obviously she'd have to say why it's a bad idea to lick toilet seats at the current time




Massive whiff of you dismissing the 15 to 24 cohort there Sid.  You give out about dictators and rightly so but your tone suggests someone who looks down on a lot of people with little forgives for human foibles 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
Surey that can be discussed without any debate about the reasons for it. This is exactly the problem with the media here. 

They were discussing the measures and the inconsistencies and how that was leading to fatigue and lack of buy as you can buy vodka but you can’t buy a child’s coat and that these inconsistent rules lead to people playing their part and coming up with their own rules some which they obey and some they don’t.   I think it’s perfectly fine for this morning to discuss that.   If it’s siloed off on to newsnight only a select amount of people see and hear it.   Part of gay Byrnes brilliance was how his radio show and the late late mixed the light and the shade and as a result reached more people.   The segregation of topics and shows has actually been a backward step imo and leads to less solidarity.    
I disagree. Not only does discussing serious matters on a lighthearted television shows demean their seriousness, but ony the soundbites filter down. Tabloid slants on serious things are very dangerous.

I never really listened to or watched Gay Byrne that much as I took a dislike to his patronising manner at a young age, but Ireland seems to love these mixed shows where you talk about the war in Syria, Puck Fair and an interview with Stephen Kenny, all done by the same host. It seems  to undermine each issue in turn in the process.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:49pm
we will agree to disagree as late night politics shows are only watched by a tiny cohort of political nerds.   The news and these mixed shows reach  a far greater audience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

the CMO was on Dermot and Dave last week also.  Doubt it’s the 15 to 24. Probably more like the 24 to 34.  

I doubt Tommy Tiernan speaks to the 15 to 24 cohort.   It’s defiantly not through MSM Stations anyway.
Maybe they could tailor the message 

Sign up some Instagram influencer who licks toilet seats or something

Obviously she'd have to say why it's a bad idea to lick toilet seats at the current time




Massive whiff of you dismissing the 15 to 24 cohort there Sid.  You give out about dictators and rightly so but your tone suggests someone who looks down on a lot of people with little forgives for human foibles 
You're dismissing me and I don't like your tone

I feel victimised by that

Thankfully I have a lifestyle influencer on Instagram I follow who I know will have some excellent paid advice, product placement and vacuous memes to make me feel better about myself


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
Surey that can be discussed without any debate about the reasons for it. This is exactly the problem with the media here. 

They were discussing the measures and the inconsistencies and how that was leading to fatigue and lack of buy as you can buy vodka but you can’t buy a child’s coat and that these inconsistent rules lead to people playing their part and coming up with their own rules some which they obey and some they don’t.   I think it’s perfectly fine for this morning to discuss that.   If it’s siloed off on to newsnight only a select amount of people see and hear it.   Part of gay Byrnes brilliance was how his radio show and the late late mixed the light and the shade and as a result reached more people.   The segregation of topics and shows has actually been a backward step imo and leads to less solidarity.    
I disagree. Not only does discussing serious matters on a lighthearted television shows demean their seriousness, but ony the soundbites filter down. Tabloid slants on serious things are very dangerous.

I never really listened to or watched Gay Byrne that much as I took a dislike to his patronising manner at a young age, but Ireland seems to love these mixed shows where you talk about the war in Syria, Puck Fair and an interview with Stephen Kenny, all done by the same host. It seems  to undermine each issue in turn in the process.

I want a return to shows like this

It shows that major issues can be tackled in children's television slots by challenging major celebrities

Hard hitting current affairs analysis from CBBC

"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

we will agree to disagree as late night politics shows are only watched by a tiny cohort of political nerds.   The news and these mixed shows reach  a far greater audience. 
It isn't a 'mixed show'! It's light-hearted television for the depressed, long-term unemployed and the menopausal. This mixture of entertainment and proper discussion is why we have Trump, Johnson and other nonsense. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:02pm
I disagree as you say Ireland loves these types of shows and doesn’t have a trump or hasn’t had one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Do the US count deaths the same way we do here? Where even if covid isn't the cause of death it is still marked as the cause?
Covid not being the cause of death would be something like having a Covid cough and then being knocked down by a bus

I don't really get this thing about Covid supposedly not being the cause of death

It's an accelerant that ruthlessly seeks out weakness in the human body and causes death

Sweden I believe does not count any Covid deaths beyond a 28 day cut off as a Covid death - even though they are


That would also be marked as a covid death based on how they are counted here and in the UK.

If you contract covid here and die within 70 days of absolutely anything it'll be marked as a covid death.

The same with ICU numbers, you could be in ICU with covid but that doesn't necessarily mean you are being treated for covid. 

The vast majority of the deaths are probably correct to be marked as covid deaths but there are some that are not. I seen on TV a UK Health Expert said that they might end up counting some that didn't die of covid but they probably missed just as many that did so it should even out. 

I believe the UK removed 5,000 deaths from their statistics at one point because of this.

Untrue

The Journal fact checked this recently


Okay well that is the case in the UK, I was lead to believe we followed the same approach.

"So if a person with Covid-19 dies from a heart attack or a stroke, their death will be recorded and added to the figures. The ad is correct in this regard."

I see the reason for this is because they believe covid may have contributed to this, which could be the case of course but not always. 

I see there is some truth in that the numbers may be slightly inflated but not with the extreme hit by a bus example I believed to be true. Good to know sid, thanks for sharing the article.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I disagree as you say Ireland loves these types of shows and doesn’t have a trump or hasn’t had one. 
Does it? I don't remember such a show in Ireland. There was that thing with the weatherman? Did that do politics and current affairs in a flippant manner? My reference was to radio shows, especially current affairs ones, that also dabbled in sport, the arts and  assorted unnecessary nonsense. 

There's an argument that every single Taoisigh has been populist since the foundation of the state too. Our media at home has been very poor overall, when you look at the speed in uncovering the child abuse scandals, Tuam babies, industrial schools etc. I don't think we have a strong history in that regard. Unlike over here, however, we do at least still have a reliable newspaper of record.
You also missed the word 'yet' in your post!

Separate arguments, anyway, but the lack of political awareness and the dumbing down of debates are certainly connected.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 3:53pm
well the late late show was a classic case of a show that moved from light to heavy topics.   Our media is full of shows that do that.  

Blaming mixed shows for the rise or populist leaders is a stretched.  If anything media has become
More fragmented in the last 20 years and those huge societal shows that grab the nation don’t exist anymore and we are the poorer for it.   The answer is not a greater degree of fragmentation and only have political issues discussed on political shows.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 4:00pm
I didn't blame mixed-shows at all. I'm not sure there are mixed-shows over here at all!
The use of light entertainment shows to push a political agenda is part of the reason that the debate has 'dumbed down'. I would say that is stating the obvious. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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There is that **** on Channel 5, now that I think about.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I didn't blame mixed-shows at all. I'm not sure there are mixed-shows over here at all!
The use of light entertainment shows to push a political agenda is part of the reason that the debate has 'dumbed down'. I would say that is stating the obvious. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I didn't blame mixed-shows at all. I'm not sure there are mixed-shows over here at all!
The use of light entertainment shows to push a political agenda is part of the reason that the debate has 'dumbed down'. I would say that is stating the obvious. 

I thought it was a reasonable and responsible piece on this morning discussing some of the measures and the practical impact on people and how some of the absurd aspects may lead into lack of buy in from the public.  It wasn’t calling for people to disobey them and wasn’t sAyong
Measures were not needed.   I think challenging and questioning some of the measures is reasonable and responsible and nothing wrong with it on a mid morning lifestyle type show. 

These types of shows have existed since I was a kid and before pebble
mill on the bbc and in fact they have become more entertainment over the years and lost the day to day real life stuff over the years. 


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Oct 2020 at 4:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Do the US count deaths the same way we do here? Where even if covid isn't the cause of death it is still marked as the cause?
Covid not being the cause of death would be something like having a Covid cough and then being knocked down by a bus

I don't really get this thing about Covid supposedly not being the cause of death

It's an accelerant that ruthlessly seeks out weakness in the human body and causes death

Sweden I believe does not count any Covid deaths beyond a 28 day cut off as a Covid death - even though they are


That would also be marked as a covid death based on how they are counted here and in the UK.

If you contract covid here and die within 70 days of absolutely anything it'll be marked as a covid death.

The same with ICU numbers, you could be in ICU with covid but that doesn't necessarily mean you are being treated for covid. 

The vast majority of the deaths are probably correct to be marked as covid deaths but there are some that are not. I seen on TV a UK Health Expert said that they might end up counting some that didn't die of covid but they probably missed just as many that did so it should even out. 

I believe the UK removed 5,000 deaths from their statistics at one point because of this.

Untrue

The Journal fact checked this recently


Okay well that is the case in the UK, I was lead to believe we followed the same approach.

"So if a person with Covid-19 dies from a heart attack or a stroke, their death will be recorded and added to the figures. The ad is correct in this regard."

I see the reason for this is because they believe covid may have contributed to this, which could be the case of course but not always. 

I see there is some truth in that the numbers may be slightly inflated but not with the extreme hit by a bus example I believed to be true. Good to know sid, thanks for sharing the article.
Previously in England it was true but that is not the case now and the figures have been updated to reflect this

The whole of the UK now uses the 28 day cut off

However I would strongly suggest that this means Covid deaths are being under counted rather than over counted

Herman Cain, for instance, would not have been counted as a Covid death if he had been in England

I certainly think there are a hell of a lot more people for whom Covid was a major contributor to their deaths and are not being counted as a Covid death, than people who test positive and get killed in a car crash 

I don't think the latter was ever a real problem in terms of inflation of numbers, far from it, it was a straw man used for a particular political purpose
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
Surey that can be discussed without any debate about the reasons for it. This is exactly the problem with the media here. 

They were discussing the measures and the inconsistencies and how that was leading to fatigue and lack of buy as you can buy vodka but you can’t buy a child’s coat and that these inconsistent rules lead to people playing their part and coming up with their own rules some which they obey and some they don’t.   I think it’s perfectly fine for this morning to discuss that.   If it’s siloed off on to newsnight only a select amount of people see and hear it.   Part of gay Byrnes brilliance was how his radio show and the late late mixed the light and the shade and as a result reached more people.   The segregation of topics and shows has actually been a backward step imo and leads to less solidarity.    
I disagree. Not only does discussing serious matters on a lighthearted television shows demean their seriousness, but ony the soundbites filter down. Tabloid slants on serious things are very dangerous.

I never really listened to or watched Gay Byrne that much as I took a dislike to his patronising manner at a young age, but Ireland seems to love these mixed shows where you talk about the war in Syria, Puck Fair and an interview with Stephen Kenny, all done by the same host. It seems  to undermine each issue in turn in the process.

I want a return to shows like this

It shows that major issues can be tackled in children's television slots by challenging major celebrities

Hard hitting current affairs analysis from CBBC


Never saw that Botham interview before. Bloody brilliant. Always thought he was a cock!
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