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Coronavirus - Remain Calm. Do Not Panic

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 12:34pm
Sid, any chance that you might tell us the way you think we should deal with the pandemic in the ROI ? Interested in your proposals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Artie Ziff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 12:34pm
Flue Wink info Europe 


Up to 72 000 deaths occur in the WHO European Region from the flu each year. 

To date 151 323 deaths from Coronavirus have occured in Europe. Let's say there will be 210,000 European deaths in a calendar year. That would suggest it's 3 times more deadly, but that's with extreme measures in place across the world to stop the spread. So in all probability we could multiply that 3 by any number of times to get corona deaths in a year if we just went about things as normal as we do with the flu.



Disease facts about seasonal influenza

Facts

Seasonal influenza is a vaccine-preventable disease that each year infects approximately ten to thirty per cent of Europe's population, and causes hundreds of thousands of hospitalisations across Europe. Older people, younger children and those with chronic conditions suffer the most, but everyone is at risk of developing serious complications—which include pneumonia, myocarditis and encephalitis—that may result in death.

Influenza is an infectious disease with mostly respiratory symptoms caused by influenza viruses. The most significant impacts of influenza viruses on humans are those arising from the influenza A strains. Seasonal influenza is a disease that annually affects Europe and the rest of the northern hemisphere during the winter season with larger or smaller epidemics. The southern hemisphere has a similar epidemic in its winter (June to October).

The disease can be anything from mild to very severe. Each year there are many avoidable deaths from influenza. Though death is considerably more common in older people and those with other illnesses (such as heart disease and chronic lung disease) severe disease and some deaths occur each year in healthy young and middle aged adults and children.

Because the viruses causing each year's epidemics are usually similar to the last year's it is possible to produce a vaccine for the coming influenza season with a good chance that it will be protective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Interesting I caught a few mins of this morning on itv and there seems to be far more casual questioning of the lockdowns on mainstream media in the uk than there is on rte here.   

Now we know where that has led to over there but its interesting to observe the difference. 


Firstly, and most importantly, is everything alright? Because people normally need to be mentally unwell or going through the menopause to watch that!

The British media is an absolute sewer. There isn't one trustworthy source available over here and would question every little thing about it. I certainly wouldn't be upholding tabloid television as an example of anything!

Well now that you mention it I do have a few hot flushes and feeling kinda dry 
The point I suppose is that the uk media is shocking but I think rte should probably help itself a bit more with a bit more journalism and less repeating of the press conferences George Lee style.   It's a balancing act.
There's no journalism on This Morning! The programme itself wouldn't claim that.

I know there isn't PM.  The point I making is that even casual disagreeing with every recommendation is not found on rte. That's not healthy.  I was saying  even a sh*t programme like this morning has some sort of questioning.   Not ebethybung on this is binary.  There is nuance and rte so far has been an extended arm of the state that's not good for.the state as it leads to conspiracy theorists wet dream 
I consider having people even discussing something serious on such a show to be extremely dangerous. Stick to kittens, deformities and Noel Edmonds' magic box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Interesting I caught a few mins of this morning on itv and there seems to be far more casual questioning of the lockdowns on mainstream media in the uk than there is on rte here.   

Now we know where that has led to over there but its interesting to observe the difference. 


Firstly, and most importantly, is everything alright? Because people normally need to be mentally unwell or going through the menopause to watch that!

The British media is an absolute sewer. There isn't one trustworthy source available over here and would question every little thing about it. I certainly wouldn't be upholding tabloid television as an example of anything!

Well now that you mention it I do have a few hot flushes and feeling kinda dry 
The point I suppose is that the uk media is shocking but I think rte should probably help itself a bit more with a bit more journalism and less repeating of the press conferences George Lee style.   It's a balancing act.
The UK approach to journalism tends to be:
Here's an analysis by someone with 30 years experience of the topic in question
And now for some balance here's a counter opinion by someone who is going through a breakdown but has watched a few YouTube videos on the subject.

Thankfully RTE don't waste airtime with the Gemma Dohertys of the world 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Do the US count deaths the same way we do here? Where even if covid isn't the cause of death it is still marked as the cause?
Covid not being the cause of death would be something like having a Covid cough and then being knocked down by a bus

I don't really get this thing about Covid supposedly not being the cause of death

It's an accelerant that ruthlessly seeks out weakness in the human body and causes death

Sweden I believe does not count any Covid deaths beyond a 28 day cut off as a Covid death - even though they are


That would also be marked as a covid death based on how they are counted here and in the UK.

If you contract covid here and die within 70 days of absolutely anything it'll be marked as a covid death.

The same with ICU numbers, you could be in ICU with covid but that doesn't necessarily mean you are being treated for covid. 

The vast majority of the deaths are probably correct to be marked as covid deaths but there are some that are not. I seen on TV a UK Health Expert said that they might end up counting some that didn't die of covid but they probably missed just as many that did so it should even out. 

I believe the UK removed 5,000 deaths from their statistics at one point because of this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Interesting I caught a few mins of this morning on itv and there seems to be far more casual questioning of the lockdowns on mainstream media in the uk than there is on rte here.   

Now we know where that has led to over there but its interesting to observe the difference. 


Firstly, and most importantly, is everything alright? Because people normally need to be mentally unwell or going through the menopause to watch that!

The British media is an absolute sewer. There isn't one trustworthy source available over here and would question every little thing about it. I certainly wouldn't be upholding tabloid television as an example of anything!

Well now that you mention it I do have a few hot flushes and feeling kinda dry 
The point I suppose is that the uk media is shocking but I think rte should probably help itself a bit more with a bit more journalism and less repeating of the press conferences George Lee style.   It's a balancing act.
There's no journalism on This Morning! The programme itself wouldn't claim that.

I know there isn't PM.  The point I making is that even casual disagreeing with every recommendation is not found on rte. That's not healthy.  I was saying  even a sh*t programme like this morning has some sort of questioning.   Not ebethybung on this is binary.  There is nuance and rte so far has been an extended arm of the state that's not good for.the state as it leads to conspiracy theorists wet dream 
I consider having people even discussing something serious on such a show to be extremely dangerous. Stick to kittens, deformities and Noel Edmonds' magic box.

I dont think a lifestyle show can ignore the impact of covid  on people whether that's what you can and can't buy or the impact on households etc.  Serious topics do not only belong on newsnight etc when only a small cohort of the population watch it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pipkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Artie Ziff Artie Ziff wrote:

Flue Wink info Europe 


Up to 72 000 deaths occur in the WHO European Region from the flu each year. 

To date 151 323 deaths from Coronavirus have occured in Europe. Let's say there will be 210,000 European deaths in a calendar year. That would suggest it's 3 times more deadly, but that's with extreme measures in place across the world to stop the spread. So in all probability we could multiply that 3 by any number of times to get corona deaths in a year if we just went about things as normal as we do with the flu.



Disease facts about seasonal influenza

Facts

Seasonal influenza is a vaccine-preventable disease that each year infects approximately ten to thirty per cent of Europe's population, and causes hundreds of thousands of hospitalisations across Europe. Older people, younger children and those with chronic conditions suffer the most, but everyone is at risk of developing serious complications—which include pneumonia, myocarditis and encephalitis—that may result in death.

Influenza is an infectious disease with mostly respiratory symptoms caused by influenza viruses. The most significant impacts of influenza viruses on humans are those arising from the influenza A strains. Seasonal influenza is a disease that annually affects Europe and the rest of the northern hemisphere during the winter season with larger or smaller epidemics. The southern hemisphere has a similar epidemic in its winter (June to October).

The disease can be anything from mild to very severe. Each year there are many avoidable deaths from influenza. Though death is considerably more common in older people and those with other illnesses (such as heart disease and chronic lung disease) severe disease and some deaths occur each year in healthy young and middle aged adults and children.

Because the viruses causing each year's epidemics are usually similar to the last year's it is possible to produce a vaccine for the coming influenza season with a good chance that it will be protective.

Those are the deaths with a vaccine. If we didn’t have a vaccine surely the death rate from flu would be much higher?

Not that it matters; either way it supports the wait for a vaccine approach - a vaccine that may come next month or in 2030.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 1:58pm
The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
I was in Tesco yesterday. Clothes were blocked off. Tampons were available to buy.



Edited by FrankosHereNow - 26 Oct 2020 at 2:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Maybe RTE should get somebody on to tell us why the US is doing a great job and why we should be like them

Not wanting mass death is sneering elitism now, say the billionaire right-wing think tank guys


Sid you know that's not what I am saying. That sort of hyperbole doesn't help.  An article like cliff Taylor's yesterday is the tone of what I am saying that rte could do with having on.   

Of course the right winger nut jobs should not be anywhere the tv 
I didn't say that's what you were saying

Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Do the US count deaths the same way we do here? Where even if covid isn't the cause of death it is still marked as the cause?
Covid not being the cause of death would be something like having a Covid cough and then being knocked down by a bus

I don't really get this thing about Covid supposedly not being the cause of death

It's an accelerant that ruthlessly seeks out weakness in the human body and causes death

Sweden I believe does not count any Covid deaths beyond a 28 day cut off as a Covid death - even though they are


That would also be marked as a covid death based on how they are counted here and in the UK.

If you contract covid here and die within 70 days of absolutely anything it'll be marked as a covid death.

The same with ICU numbers, you could be in ICU with covid but that doesn't necessarily mean you are being treated for covid. 

The vast majority of the deaths are probably correct to be marked as covid deaths but there are some that are not. I seen on TV a UK Health Expert said that they might end up counting some that didn't die of covid but they probably missed just as many that did so it should even out. 

I believe the UK removed 5,000 deaths from their statistics at one point because of this.

Untrue

The Journal fact checked this recently

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
I was in Tesco yesterday. Clothes were blocked off. Tampons were available to buy.


Yeah think the issue was in wales. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
I was in Tesco yesterday. Clothes were blocked off. Tampons were available to buy.

 
There are some things the global pandemic will not stop happening. Period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Sid, any chance that you might tell us the way you think we should deal with the pandemic in the ROI ? Interested in your proposals.
Long term strategy

Either Zero Covid or a world class find, test, trace and isolate regime

But both are a lot easier said than done 

However we have unquestionably failed when it comes to each - we haven't really considered Zero Covid or exercised behind the scenes diplomacy with the Brits and the Nordies to persuade them that such a thing might be desirable

We've defo failed as regards the tracing

In the absence of either, the way we're tipping along at the moment with the musical chairs of different levels is about the best available to us I think 

Certianly better than the simplistic "open it up" nonsense, I mean have a look at Belgium to see how this can explode - NPHET have been proven right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
Surey that can be discussed without any debate about the reasons for it. This is exactly the problem with the media here. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Maybe RTE should get somebody on to tell us why the US is doing a great job and why we should be like them

Not wanting mass death is sneering elitism now, say the billionaire right-wing think tank guys


Sid you know that's not what I am saying. That sort of hyperbole doesn't help.  An article like cliff Taylor's yesterday is the tone of what I am saying that rte could do with having on.   

Of course the right winger nut jobs should not be anywhere the tv 
I didn't say that's what you were saying

Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions

Well I brought up RTE and your post seemed to be in that context  Not sure what you are referring to.  

I think it’s reasonable that Rte could have reasonable discussions  on many of their shows including lifestyle shows about everyday impacts on covid including impact of lockdown.  The George Lee approach on the news is not the answer imo.   We need greater buy in and the George Lee approach does not lead to that.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:31pm
Public buy in is obviously very important 

That's why the Late Late Show is very important because it's the national television programme, the definition of middle Ireland

I don't know what stuff the young people watch or listen to these days but maybe the message could be got out to them a bit better

Sign Conor McGregor and Tommy Tiernan up for a series of witty ads in which Tiernan makes veiled references to McGregor's rape allegations but in which the overall message is one of complying with the regulations

Or something like the old Aussie ad campaign against drink driving - "Drink, drive, bloody idiot"

"The lads couldn't resist drinking cans, now they have to bury their Grans"





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The item on this morning was in relation to what products are essential and what are not. Tesco saying period products are not essential is a joke really.  Costs for kids not deemed as essential also.
Surey that can be discussed without any debate about the reasons for it. This is exactly the problem with the media here. 

They were discussing the measures and the inconsistencies and how that was leading to fatigue and lack of buy as you can buy vodka but you can’t buy a child’s coat and that these inconsistent rules lead to people playing their part and coming up with their own rules some which they obey and some they don’t.   I think it’s perfectly fine for this morning to discuss that.   If it’s siloed off on to newsnight only a select amount of people see and hear it.   Part of gay Byrnes brilliance was how his radio show and the late late mixed the light and the shade and as a result reached more people.   The segregation of topics and shows has actually been a backward step imo and leads to less solidarity.    
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