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Borussia 
Roy Keane
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 Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 11:47am |
 AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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roverstillidie
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 11:55am |
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
Absolutely not for a number of reasons
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roverstillidie
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 11:56am |
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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Do you structure a league just to help the bottom clubs?
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AnCearrbhach
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 11:58am |
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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Athlone and Waterford need to get there own house in order and can gain promotion if they start heading in the right direction. The league can't cater to basket cases like these. Galway, Drogheda, City, Derry, Rovers and Dundalk have all been in the first recently., re-built and came back stronger. Raising Athlones home attendance from 200 to 400 should not be a priority. 2 divisions of 10 gives 9 positions of consequence for 20 teams as opposed to 3 in a single division. The Irish public will not show up to see Longford and Galway battle it out for 11th place there has to be something on the line.
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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 12:01pm |
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
Absolutely not, we barely have ten teams to play at Premier level.
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Borussia
Roy Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 12:01pm |
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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Do you structure a league just to help the bottom clubs?
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On the flip side, do you structure it just to help the top clubs ?
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Borussia
Roy Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 12:12pm |
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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AnCearrbhach
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 12:25pm |
Borussia wrote:
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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Athlone would generate there own interest if they were competitive in the first as they have shown previously. They will not generate interest playing in a league where they will never be competing for the few positions which matter.
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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 12:30pm |
Borussia wrote:
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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They aren't good enough to play against the top clubs in the country regularly and have done nothing to deserve it. You want them to be rewarded for financial mismanagement with bigger crowds? If they can get their house in order they may earn the right to play against them and even be competitive.
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Borussia
Roy Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 1:46pm |
pre Madonna wrote:
Borussia wrote:
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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They aren't good enough to play against the top clubs in the country regularly and have done nothing to deserve it. You want them to be rewarded for financial mismanagement with bigger crowds? If they can get their house in order they may earn the right to play against them and even be competitive. |
Surely this is being short sighted though - A stronger league all round helps all teams, not just the small ones.
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AnCearrbhach
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 2:14pm |
Borussia wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
Borussia wrote:
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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They aren't good enough to play against the top clubs in the country regularly and have done nothing to deserve it. You want them to be rewarded for financial mismanagement with bigger crowds? If they can get their house in order they may earn the right to play against them and even be competitive. |
Surely this is being short sighted though - A stronger league all round helps all teams, not just the small ones. |
How would the league be stronger? The better players would be more spread out, 75% of the teams would have nothing to play for, teams who now are going comparatively well would have a litany of undesirable fixtures, no punishment for poor performances, financial mis-management would abound to try and achieve relevance, nowhere to get your feet in senior football like Cabo have done and possibly not compliant with UEFA law(always gets said but never seen the rule).
The 2 division 10 team structure gives everyone something to play for bar maybe a couple at the bottom of the first (this could be improved further by the return of the A championship, whose demise we also have short sighted clubs to thank for)
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Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 2:18pm |
Borussia wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
Borussia wrote:
My point is really in an ideal scenario you would have 20 financially stable. competitive clubs in the Country - A pipe dream maybe, but still. Now, will a ten team Premier Division above a first division actually produce that ? I doubt that. I do understand the sentiment of wanting the likes of Athlone etc to get their house in order but at the same time how easy of a sell is it for the likes of Athlone to generate interest in games against the likes of Cabo, Cobh etc (No offence to either club).
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They aren't good enough to play against the top clubs in the country regularly and have done nothing to deserve it. You want them to be rewarded for financial mismanagement with bigger crowds? If they can get their house in order they may earn the right to play against them and even be competitive. |
Surely this is being short sighted though - A stronger league all round helps all teams, not just the small ones. |
I would see it as very much the opposite and would weaken the league hugely. We have, at most, 8-10 teams capable of playing in the top division, how will they be improved by playing teams who shouldn't be in the same league as them? One of the biggest problems people have, rightly or wrongly, is the number of meaningless games there are in the first division, how many meaningless games would there be in a 20 team league which will split into three anyway? What would the point be for the teams currently battling for promotion and relegation? If teams develop, run themselves right on and off the pitch we might be able to expand the top flight.
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Borussia
Roy Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 2:28pm |
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All valid points raised - I'm not sure there is one magic solution that is going to work for all.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 2:35pm |
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The problems of the league won't be be solved by the make up of the divisions, although in football you should have to work your way to the top, it is the only way to have any hope of sustainability. What is most worrying here is how the clubs are seemingly undecided over what they want.
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roverstillidie
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 3:42pm |
Borussia wrote:
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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Do you structure a league just to help the bottom clubs?
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On the flip side, do you structure it just to help the top clubs ?
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Not 'just' no. But it makes more sense to do what is in their interests
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Twoinarow
Davey Langan
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Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 3:57pm |
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
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Do you structure a league just to help the bottom clubs?
|
On the flip side, do you structure it just to help the top clubs ?
|
Not 'just' no. But it makes more sense to do what is in their interests |
I understand what you are saying RTID but when ourselves and yourselves were battling it out in the 1st division a few years ago (us for many more than a few years) Would you think the same that the top Prem Division sides interests should be first?
Edited by Twoinarow - 06 Jan 2017 at 3:57pm
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2 in a row and we won it in Tallaght
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roverstillidie
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 11:49am |
Twoinarow wrote:
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
roverstillidie wrote:
Borussia wrote:
AnCearrbhach wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Been discussed before but surely having one division is the way forward ? |
why? Dilutes quality across the board and would probably leave at leave 14 teams with nothing to play for for large portions of the season. |
Well, I think it would certainly be beneficial for the likes of Waterford, possibly Athlone etc to have the big teams come to town during the season : Generates more interest etc. Also, if you look at the teams currently down there then having a one division set up would bring back a number of derby games that you wouldn't have had the last season or two. Again, a way of generating interest which would hopefully benefit the league as a whole.
In terms of diluting quality, any league is going to have "Haves" and "Have not's" in terms of quality, talent pool, resources etc - But would the top teams in the First Division last season have been that much worse than the bottom teams in the prem ? I do see a slight issue with there being no relegation and in an ideal scenario you might have some sort of play-off at junior level for the opportunity to come up but being realistic there are unlikely to be many teams in a position to come up so I get that.
|
Do you structure a league just to help the bottom clubs?
|
On the flip side, do you structure it just to help the top clubs ?
|
Not 'just' no. But it makes more sense to do what is in their interests |
I understand what you are saying RTID but when ourselves and yourselves were battling it out in the 1st division a few years ago (us for many more than a few years) Would you think the same that the top Prem Division sides interests should be first?
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Absolutely. We were in the first for a reason. We used that time to rebuild and move forward. I would not have supported any idea to drag the rest down tho level
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Bitored
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 8:05pm |
http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/Newstalks_Airtricity_League_Podcast/179701/2017_Preview_Week_One Fran Gavin talking about the changes to the league (he starts talking about a minute or 2 into it). He said a few bizarre things. He has no idea how "the clubs" came to the decision to change to a 10 team league. The 2018 league format has not been finalised.
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I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona
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