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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Chris Morris had decent games against England and Holland

Morris gets a bit of an unfair rep. He wasn't top class but had a decent career, was winning things in a Scottish league that was a very high standard back then and was there on merit at the time. Irwin then came in and he was there on merit. But Irwin had never played a top flight game before italia 90 which people seem to forget. 

I've always felt there was a huge amount of revisionism about Jack's era by critics of it and am sure of it watching the games again. Looking at the Holland game last night, we played fairly well. Lot better than against England. The goal was long ball obviously but we got it down a bit against a very good side. 

And even the agreement between Mick and Gullit was only the last ten minutes. Happened when there was a long stoppage for Quinn getting injured. The myth has nearly become that it was half the second half from as soon as we equalised. Funny how narratives develop.


Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 09 May 2020 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 

Spot on although Aldo was a far better finisher for me. If Robbie could have finished like Aldo he'd probably have had 100 goals for us. Don't think Aldo would have missed Robbie's second chance in Paris for example. Robbie could do things Aldo couldn't but Aldo was a calmer finisher. Robbie was better when it was instinctive. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 
I think Aldridge was a better finisher,  Keane had a bit more skill and guile. There were very few better finishers than Aldo in football at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:59am
Yeah I agree lads.  Aldridge was brilliant himself rush and lineker were in the same class imo as strikers.  

Poachers don’t really exist nowadays
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thebronze14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

that’s as good a performance that I’ve seen from an Irish Team and just makes you wonder of all the revisionism by certain Journalists and commentators on The football we played . 

Strange watching it totally sober as the drink ban was 24 hours from midnight the day before but the lunacy of the fiat workers chaining themselves to the railway lines making us just arrive at the game as gullit scored with 2 Italians in our seats affected my memories of the game.
Football is allowed to be watched sober you knowLOLModern day Irish games though are inadvisable. Just got through the first half. More exciting than I thought. Like watching the old matches before too much commercialism took over. Would have loved to have been at that World Cup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sharpshooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 
I think Aldridge was a better finisher,  Keane had a bit more skill and guile. There were very few better finishers than Aldo in football at the time.

So is it fair to say Ireland could've actually been a better attacking outfit and Charlton didn't get the best out of Aldridge?  I get that he deliberately chose not to, but in hindsight I wonder if there are regrets from irish fans they weren't allowed to be more expansive.


Edited by Sharpshooter - 09 May 2020 at 3:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 3:24pm
But the dilemma there is, and I'm sure it was Jack's argument at the time, if he changed the system to get the best out of Aldridge he would have weakened the system. Every player had to pull their weight, there was no room for artistry over effort, rightly or wrongly, and having a penalty-box striker, like Aldridge was, would have compromised that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 
I think Aldridge was a better finisher,  Keane had a bit more skill and guile. There were very few better finishers than Aldo in football at the time.

So is it fair to say Ireland could've actually been a better attacking outfit and Charlton didn't get the best out of Aldridge?  I get that he deliberately chose not to, but in hindsight I wonder if there are regrets from irish fans they weren't allowed to be more expansive.

A lot of pundits believe that if Jack let the players off the leash more then they could have done better. That we had very good players like Brady, O'Leary, McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson (in the early days) etc who were restricted.

The counter argument is that after the disappointment of being fleeced out of a World Cup place in 82, those players were involved in two campaigns when we were absolutely abysmal before Jack took over. 

It's very debatable whether we could have been more successful than a last eight and last 16 of a World Cup and a width of a post and offside fluke away from the semis in Euro 88. Even missing out on Euro 92 came down to Dave O'Leary trying to play out of defence instead of hoofing into the stands away to Poland as Jack would have wanted. He came up with a system that other nations who had better  technical players than us couldn't deal with. But we had better technical players than he allowed express. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 4:17pm
Aldo must have scored 100 goals sliding in at the back post for Tranmere. An absolute titan in the box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 4:32pm
Same as today with other issues very easy to point out alternatives when you are not the one making the call.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by ProudAndLoud ProudAndLoud wrote:

Got train from Palermo back to Cefalu then party all night. A few Dutch about. I always think they the closest to us as fans and party. Usually no messing just sing song and party. Even after beating them in Landsdowne Road some came up to us and said well done you deserve it.
Funny i always saw the best people i have ever met are the Dutch and the Kiwis .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by ProudAndLoud ProudAndLoud wrote:

So we were going to Genoa. No one had any idea how to get there. No internet or mobile phones so word went about that there a ferry from Palermo to Genoa. So off we went I think 8 hours on ferry.
Great days
I remember getting that ferry , i recall it got in early in the morning . When i got onboard i picked a spot unrolled the sleeping bag and that was me for the night .
Now i remember hanging with a big group of Dubs they went on the train and got there before me so headed down to the ground to get in line to get a ticket and the lads saved a spot for me in the queue so i managed to get a class 4 ticket  ( the cheapest )  for behind the goals where the pens were taken and the rest as they say is history .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 

How many more goals would Aldo have registered if the modern day offside rule was in place? Always wonder. 25, 50, 75? 

Many mitigating factors of course and we will never know. Passes not played because he was offside, runs not made etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:23pm
ah no, Aldridge was a canny striker,very very cute and sharp.hed have been fine. The bigger question is would Keane have gotten into that Liverpool side? Not a chance would be my take.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

ah no, Aldridge was a canny striker,very very cute and sharp.hed have been fine. The bigger question is would Keane have gotten into that Liverpool side? Not a chance would be my take.
I took that as being complimentary to Aldridge? Agree though, he wouldn't have, and that's no insult either!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Sharpshooter Sharpshooter wrote:

Personally think Ireland missed a real top class goalscorer in those days.  Put peak Robbie Keane in that side and Ireland would be dark horse for some of those tournaments.


You are talking sh*te we had Johnny Aldridge who was a class goal scorer but he was asked to play a different game for Ireland under jack and run the channels.  Robbie would have been asked the same.  At his peak Aldridge was every bit the finisher that Keane was.  Keane has an amazing career for Ireland and he is our best ever forward imo but Aldridge was a brilliant poacher who had to play a difffernt game for Ireland to keep his place. 
I think Aldridge was a better finisher,  Keane had a bit more skill and guile. There were very few better finishers than Aldo in football at the time.

So is it fair to say Ireland could've actually been a better attacking outfit and Charlton didn't get the best out of Aldridge?  I get that he deliberately chose not to, but in hindsight I wonder if there are regrets from irish fans they weren't allowed to be more expansive.

A lot of pundits believe that if Jack let the players off the leash more then they could have done better. That we had very good players like Brady, O'Leary, McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson (in the early days) etc who were restricted.

The counter argument is that after the disappointment of being fleeced out of a World Cup place in 82, those players were involved in two campaigns when we were absolutely abysmal before Jack took over. 

It's very debatable whether we could have been more successful than a last eight and last 16 of a World Cup and a width of a post and offside fluke away from the semis in Euro 88. Even missing out on Euro 92 came down to Dave O'Leary trying to play out of defence instead of hoofing into the stands away to Poland as Jack would have wanted. He came up with a system that other nations who had better  technical players than us couldn't deal with. But we had better technical players than he allowed express. 

Glad you made this point as there's a lot of revisionism around Jack and the great Irish teams he was blessed with. 

I do think we tend to overrate how good our players were in Jack's time with the team itself and if it wasn't for Jack's conservatism we'd have done even better. 

It's certainly inarguable that the system Jack had us playing in didn't allow for or compliment the skill sets of players like Brady or goalscorers like Aldridge but the overall result was we were an effective unit both home and away.  

Brady in Dunphy's podcast the other day and who has all the reason in the world to have issues with Jack but even he made the point that once results started to improve, the players bought into Jack's system. Any gripes Brady or the other players had went to the wayside. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sharpshooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 2:26am
Interesting discussion guys.

I was debating recently with Everton fans about their 84-87 era when Lineker was there for the 85/86 season, the one season in that era Everton didn't win anything the team was literally built around Lineker as he scored 40 goals, but the argument Everton fans were making was that building a team around Lineker made them more one dimensional, not having enough variety or a plan B and hence when he flopped the team flopped, i.e. the 1-0 defeat to Oxford Utd (which he blamed on not having his lucky boots) which ultimately acted as the catalyst for losing the league title that season.

When they had Andy Gray playing a more direct style, they won a lot more.  Interesting argument not sure that is directly comparable in anyway to Jack's dilemma.

Ireland ultimately did have a scoring problem though 6 goals in 12 games in tournaments, its hard to go deep in tournaments with that sort of ratio.


Edited by Sharpshooter - 10 May 2020 at 2:28am
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