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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 1:15pm
Sounds like Lampard will be appointed the Chelsea manager in the next 48 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 11:07pm
Tomas Kalas sold to Bristol City.

Remarkable story. He has been contracted to Chelsea for over a decade, but has spent that time on loan at numerous clubs, while also becoming a full Czech international.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Tomas Kalas sold to Bristol City.

Remarkable story. He has been contracted to Chelsea for over a decade, but has spent that time on loan at numerous clubs, while also becoming a full Czech international.

A sign of disgraceful rules in place by the biggest football bodies from FIFA to UEFA to the PL. Clubs like Chelsea buying up hundreds of young players down the years and just farming them out left right and centre for a few quid, but zero intent on ever using them in the first team. 

Afaik, there are hard rules coming in this season or next about the number of players clubs are now allowed to loan out at one time I think are there?

It always amazed me that this sh*try practice of clubs milking younger players for loan fees has been allowed to go on for so long and there has never been much made of it in the media. In fact any time the 40 Chelsea loanees are mentioned most people think it's hilarious.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 01 Jul 2019 at 11:57pm
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 7:15am
He played well in the game that Gerrard slipped
Thought he was gonna be a great player after that game 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 8:58am
He was Chelsea's longest serving player. Made only 2 starts, the first of which was that slip game at Anfield LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 10:04am
I’ve actually never disagreed with the Chelsea approach, simply because it’s a two way street. Players don’t need to sign continuous contracts, and they don’t need to accept a career whereby they engage in a nomadic existence. Instead some of them do, preferring the safety net of a contract with Chelsea.

Chelsea actually have to find players willing to live such a career, some undoubtedly in the hope of one day breaking into the Chelsea team. It’s their choice, as much as Chelsea’s, and in fairness Chelsea aren’t the only team who loan out s good clutch of players. You’d actually be surprised at home many players English clubs loan out, and you have to strike a balance with player development.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 10:58am
And for the actual good of the game? The standard in the Championship, for example, is dropping, partly because of the richest clubs stockpiling players. It then pushes up the demand for more average players, meaning the money spent in the division correlates with quality or ability.
It is just one thing that makes the game ridiculously unequal. Clubs shouldn’t be loaning our two squads worth of players. The players are obviously going to follow the money, but they would be far better off, as would the game, if they signed for clubs where they didn’t need to go on loan to get first team game team.

I mean, hypothetically one team could sign ever professional player in the world and loan them out! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 11:08am
I’m not actually sure Chelsea’s retention of contractual rights of a group of players impacts the standards of the championship, which I would argue is one of the superior second tiers in Europe. And the Kalas deal would suggest that the Championship can afford some of these players. 

Like I said, it’s a two way street, and it’s a decision that’s not exclusively on Chelsea. The players are willing to play that way, and are happy to play at various clubs while contracted to Chelsea. If the writing is on the wall, they can run down their contract and leave for free.

Funny enough, Lampard’s potential arrival gives a lot of these players hope. Mason Mount is a favourite of his, and he tried to get Ethan Ampadu on loan last term.

Your hypothetical is possible, but unlikely!


Edited by Het-field - 02 Jul 2019 at 11:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 1:46pm
The reason I used it is because that is how it seems now. The top clubs and franchises are monopolising players. 

I am not saying the Championship isn’t one of the best second tiers, that is indisputable. I am saying that the standard has dropped, which is more subjective. I would argue that the standard outside the top six has dropped, largely because their second and third string squads would be as competitive as teams not that far down the ladder.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I’ve actually never disagreed with the Chelsea approach, simply because it’s a two way street. Players don’t need to sign continuous contracts, and they don’t need to accept a career whereby they engage in a nomadic existence. Instead some of them do, preferring the safety net of a contract with Chelsea.

Chelsea actually have to find players willing to live such a career, some undoubtedly in the hope of one day breaking into the Chelsea team. It’s their choice, as much as Chelsea’s, and in fairness Chelsea aren’t the only team who loan out s good clutch of players. You’d actually be surprised at home many players English clubs loan out, and you have to strike a balance with player development.
Quite right.

And not only that, but Chelsea's academy and youth development system is widely recognised as being just about the best in England.

There are so many other things to dislike that club for that they don't get any credit even when they do get something right.

Which is probably fair enough, mind LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The reason I used it is because that is how it seems now. The top clubs and franchises are monopolising players. 

I am not saying the Championship isn’t one of the best second tiers, that is indisputable. I am saying that the standard has dropped, which is more subjective. I would argue that the standard outside the top six has dropped, largely because their second and third string squads would be as competitive as teams not that far down the ladder.


Id agree with the latter point. And I can certainly draw analogies with other sports as to how competitiveness can masquerade relative poor quality.

But im not sure that changing the loan system would make much of a difference. After all, players on Chelsea’s roll can be split into different categories. And some of those categories will just not impact the Championship. The likes of Morata, Moses, Batshuayi, and Zouma are top division players. They will always go to top teams. Then there are a clatter if young players who will go to the top of the Championship, and to attract those, you have to be competitive. But lower league teams have been loaning young players for years. Then there are the players who like to be contracted to Chelsea but don’t mind loaned regular. But in all cases it’s a two way street, and there are only so many players affected by the way business is done. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The reason I used it is because that is how it seems now. The top clubs and franchises are monopolising players. 

I am not saying the Championship isn’t one of the best second tiers, that is indisputable. I am saying that the standard has dropped, which is more subjective. I would argue that the standard outside the top six has dropped, largely because their second and third string squads would be as competitive as teams not that far down the ladder.


Id agree with the latter point. And I can certainly draw analogies with other sports as to how competitiveness can masquerade relative poor quality.

But im not sure that changing the loan system would make much of a difference. After all, players on Chelsea’s roll can be split into different categories. And some of those categories will just not impact the Championship. The likes of Morata, Moses, Batshuayi, and Zouma are top division players. They will always go to top teams. Then there are a clatter if young players who will go to the top of the Championship, and to attract those, you have to be competitive. But lower league teams have been loaning young players for years. Then there are the players who like to be contracted to Chelsea but don’t mind loaned regular. But in all cases it’s a two way street, and there are only so many players affected by the way business is done. 

A limit on how many players you can have out on loan at any one time would certainly help i think. Why not sell Morata, Moses, Batshuayi and Zouma then as top division players? Batshuayi is one i've often struggled to understand for Chelsea. Bought for big money and then never really given a chance. 

If clubs could only loan say 12 players out at any one time, it would mean that academy/U23 teams improve and become more competitive, makes clubs actually think about who they are bringing in, and would put an end to the practice of buying a player who will never play for the first team, farm him out to Vitesse a couple years and then sell for a profit without him ever having seen the Stamford Bridge dressing room. Your youngsters would develop at the club and your loanees would be loaned out with a view to getting experience before a first team run.

I think the players need protecting more than you suggest, too. It's the same way some people scratched their heads at Rodgers moving from Celtic to Leicester. He backs himself to reach the top with them. Sure, we might see that a player isn't gonna make it at chelsea. But i'd imagine an awful lot of those loanees have gone there with the ambition and dream of firing chelsea to Premier League and Champions League titles one day. Chelsea dangle that carrot for players and then profit off of them, to the detriment of youth recruitment generally. It's not only Chelsea that do it, it is widespread and it needs fixing. 


Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 02 Jul 2019 at 4:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

And for the actual good of the game?
Why should Chelsea be expected to act "for the good of the game", if it's contrary to their own interests?

It is for the FA/PL/UEFA/FIFA to determine what is best for the game, introduce regulations which foster best practice, and apply them equally to all clubs, inc. Chelsea.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The standard in the Championship, for example, is dropping, partly because of the richest clubs stockpiling players. It then pushes up the demand for more average players, meaning the money spent in the division correlates with quality or ability.
It is just one thing that makes the game ridiculously unequal. Clubs shouldn’t be loaning our two squads worth of players. The players are obviously going to follow the money, but they would be far better off, as would the game, if they signed for clubs where they didn’t need to go on loan to get first team game team.
Would those be the same Championship clubs who get to borrow those "stockpiled" players to boost their own team, when they couldn't otherwise afford them? (Because they'd still earn more eg in Bundesliga/La Liga/Ligue 1/Serie A etc than in the Championship)

Or those Championship clubs like Brentford, who identify undervalued lower league or overseas players like Tarkowski, Hogan, Mepham, Woods, Vibe, Jota, Egan, Colin, Dean, Odebajo, Gray, Grigg, Dallas, Bentley etc and sell them for many multiples of what they signed them for, inc some to the PL?

And that's before you count Watkins, Maupay, Benrahma, Henry and Konsa, who cost around £12-15m between them, and will likely sell for close to £100m when they eventually sell them.

Fact is, whatever else the other (undoubted) inequalities which exist between the PL and Championship, well-run clubs like Chelsea cannot be blamed for the gross inadequacies of transfer and deveopment policies at basket cases like QPR, Birmingham, Fulham, Derby, Forest and, well, nearly all of them, really.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I mean, hypothetically one team could sign ever professional player in the world and loan them out! 
Hypothetically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The reason I used it is because that is how it seems now. The top clubs and franchises are monopolising players. 

I am not saying the Championship isn’t one of the best second tiers, that is indisputable. I am saying that the standard has dropped, which is more subjective. I would argue that the standard outside the top six has dropped, largely because their second and third string squads would be as competitive as teams not that far down the ladder.


Id agree with the latter point. And I can certainly draw analogies with other sports as to how competitiveness can masquerade relative poor quality.

But im not sure that changing the loan system would make much of a difference. After all, players on Chelsea’s roll can be split into different categories. And some of those categories will just not impact the Championship. The likes of Morata, Moses, Batshuayi, and Zouma are top division players. They will always go to top teams. Then there are a clatter if young players who will go to the top of the Championship, and to attract those, you have to be competitive. But lower league teams have been loaning young players for years. Then there are the players who like to be contracted to Chelsea but don’t mind loaned regular. But in all cases it’s a two way street, and there are only so many players affected by the way business is done. 

A limit on how many players you can have out on loan at any one time would certainly help i think. Why not sell Morata, Moses, Batshuayi and Zouma then as top division players? Batshuayi is one i've often struggled to understand for Chelsea. Bought for big money and then never really given a chance. 

If clubs could only loan say 12 players out at any one time, it would mean that academy/U23 teams improve and become more competitive, makes clubs actually think about who they are bringing in, and would put an end to the practice of buying a player who will never play for the first team, farm him out to Vitesse a couple years and then sell for a profit without him ever having seen the Stamford Bridge dressing room. Your youngsters would develop at the club and your loanees would be loaned out with a view to getting experience before a first team run.

I think the players need protecting more than you suggest, too. It's the same way some people scratched their heads at Rodgers moving from Celtic to Leicester. He backs himself to reach the top with them. Sure, we might see that a player isn't gonna make it at chelsea. But i'd imagine an awful lot of those loanees have gone there with the ambition and dream of firing chelsea to Premier League and Champions League titles one day. Chelsea dangle that carrot for players and then profit off of them, to the detriment of youth recruitment generally. It's not only Chelsea that do it, it is widespread and it needs fixing. 

Morata, Moses, Zouma, and Batshuyi were all major purchase for big money. There is also a potential that they wish to remain at Chelsea. Different managers have had different views of players. Conte favoured Moses, after several years of loans. He also liked Christensen. There is a chance for top players to impress, the difficulty for those is the changing of the guard at managerial level. There is a genuine incentive for top players to stay and take loans in the meantime.

The likes of Mount, Abraham, and Ampadu have a genuine chance of breaking into the Chelsea team, and it is hard to second guess their intentions, which may well pay off if Lampard becomes manager. They are young, and have great potential, and a contract with Chelsea in hand. Again, it makes sense to stay, in the medium term and try to make it, before looking elsewhere.

Then, the likes of Kalas, Piazon, Van Ginkel etc make their choice as to how they wish to model their careers. That is their choice, and who is to say it’s not a choice they totally stick by and endorse. Perhaps they like the central contract at Chelsea, but with the freedom to move on loan, while always coming back.

Also, there is nothing to stop clubs stockpiling players, even if you scrapped the loan system. Or the system have more or less the same effect if you limited the number of players that can be loaned. Using 12 as the example, that would give plenty of room to loan players, and the rest might end up being stockpiled as reserves, and potentially forgotten about.


Edited by Het-field - 02 Jul 2019 at 4:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:55pm
But most players want to play, or they used to, so they wouldn’t want to be stockpiled.

You may well be right though, it may be far too late and the damage irretrievable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But most players want to play, or they used to, so they wouldn’t want to be stockpiled.

You may well be right though, it may be far too late and the damage irretrievable.

I think a big change might be to scrap the system of loaning players within the same league. That might induce permanent moves, or create a moment of reckoning for players who are not playing that much. I’m not sure I’ve even been excited about WH loaning a player from a PL rival, especially when the last thing the player may have done was sign a deal before starting the loan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2019 at 6:19pm
Pulisic was brilliant in that first half.
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That transfer ban has probably been the best thing to happen to the club. We'd all heard of these potentially great young players now they are been given a chance
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