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Champions League 17/18

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

The Spanish teams have been pretty poor in the Champions League so far, I don't see a winner from that country, I think they'll be knocked out early enough too

Barca have held teams at arms length throughout this campaign, they haven't reached second gear yet because there has been no need.

Also, as I've been saying time and time again about Real, La Liga is gone and they are now resting first team players during league games so it would be silly to write them off winning the CL again. 



I'd expect Real to improve, but having watched them a few times this season, I haven't been a bit impressed. The Barca v Valencia top of the table league game was fairly rubbish, while the Napoli and Juve game last Friday was brilliant.

Far to early to be writing teams off but it's definitely the start of the Spanish decline.
Atletico and Sevilla have been crap in the CL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reildogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 12:28pm
Every single one of those teams won their domestic leagues. I think Platini's change to make champions play each other in the qualifiers was a superb idea aimed at spreading the wealth around was a superb one.

Arguably Liverpool/Spurs are far less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:



Watching highlights show here, Keane has his weekly headline written for tomorrow’s click bait and Daily Mail online as he says Liverpool have beat no one yet and will do nothing when they come up against a decent team. Pougatch points out that they beat Arsenal in September and he said well exactly
Does Keane take money from the Daily Mail as well? (Don't subscribe, online or print.)

I really fail to see how he gets away with it time after time.

Last night when Pougatch teed him up with an easy one about CR7 not getting much attention this season, despite being the first player to score in all six Group games in a campaign, RK didn't appear to know exactly how many CL goals he had actually scored in those games (nine).

Worse still, he went on about how great a goalscorer he is (generally true, if obvious), but clearly didn't know that one of the reasons for Real's poor League form this season is that he has "only" scored twice in 10 La Liga games. 

Thing is, these guys get provided with briefing notes by the TV company, yet it seems RK doesn't read them, and nobody has the balls to take him up on it.

P.S. Instead of his "exactly" reply, he might have pointed out that Liverpool lost to City by the narrowest of five goal margins earlier this season, and were also edged 4-1 by "spursy" Spurs.


Edited by Territorial - 07 Dec 2017 at 2:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:



Arguably Liverpool/Spurs are far less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best.
Are you saying UEFA should go back to the old system of National Champions only?

For unless you are, then why single out Spurs? They finished 8 points ahead of Man. City last season and 17 ahead of Man U! 

And their CL performances this season have been top class - eg dominating the holders and gaining more Group points than any other team.

Meanwhile, Nicosia were dire against a second string Spurs team last night. In fact if that was anything to go by, they'd struggle to compete in the English Championship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.
 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.
 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 

I've heard you bang on about this "hipster" term in relation to recently successful teams. It's hardly a surprise that neutrals are going to want to root for sides who play attractive football and are relative underdogs in comparison to the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern etc. 
Napoli would fall under that heading. Their style is good to watch and people hope that they can break the boring hegemony of the usual suspects always winning the big tournaments. It's nothing to do with trying to be hip. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reildogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:



Arguably Liverpool/Spurs are far less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best.
Are you saying UEFA should go back to the old system of National Champions only?

For unless you are, then why single out Spurs? They finished 8 points ahead of Man. City last season and 17 ahead of Man U! 

And their CL performances this season have been top class - eg dominating the holders and gaining more Group points than any other team.

Meanwhile, Nicosia were dire against a second string Spurs team last night. In fact if that was anything to go by, they'd struggle to compete in the English Championship.

I'll update that then sorry: Arguably Man City/Liverpool/Spurs are less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia (or any other domestic league winners. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best. 

I am not suggesting that change whatsoever. It was the original poster who suggested a reduction in size. I was arguing for maintaining it as it is - rather than eliminating teams that won their domestic leagues (as suggested by the original poster). It is already sufficiently weighted in favour of the stronger leagues through the number of places and qualifying games. Nicosia played three ties to get to the group stages; Spurs played none. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.
 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 

I've heard you bang on about this "hipster" term in relation to recently successful teams. It's hardly a surprise that neutrals are going to want to root for sides who play attractive football and are relative underdogs in comparison to the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern etc. 
Napoli would fall under that heading. Their style is good to watch and people hope that they can break the boring hegemony of the usual suspects always winning the big tournaments. It's nothing to do with trying to be hip. 
 
They couldn't even get a result against a poor Feyenoord side last night.
City had enough chances in the second half to get a result last night, would have been unlikely and undeserved but you never say never in football. Napoli unable to do their bit means that I can have very little sympathy for them. They weren't unlucky or "fooked over". Just not good enough to go through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.
 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 
 
atleti, Dortmund, Napoli. I wonder who's next on the hipster hit list...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:



Arguably Liverpool/Spurs are far less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best.
Are you saying UEFA should go back to the old system of National Champions only?

For unless you are, then why single out Spurs? They finished 8 points ahead of Man. City last season and 17 ahead of Man U! 

And their CL performances this season have been top class - eg dominating the holders and gaining more Group points than any other team.

Meanwhile, Nicosia were dire against a second string Spurs team last night. In fact if that was anything to go by, they'd struggle to compete in the English Championship.

I'll update that then sorry: Arguably Man City/Liverpool/Spurs are less entitled to be in the competition than Qarabag/Nicosia (or any other domestic league winners. The competition is the champions league rather than best of the best. 
Why exclude City/Pool/Spurs before Man U, who only qualified via the Europa League, having finished 6th in the Premier League?
 
Originally posted by Reildogg Reildogg wrote:

I am not suggesting that change whatsoever. It was the original poster who suggested a reduction in size. I was arguing for maintaining it as it is - rather than eliminating teams that won their domestic leagues (as suggested by the original poster). It is already sufficiently weighted in favour of the stronger leagues through the number of places and qualifying games. Nicosia played three ties to get to the group stages; Spurs played none. 
Not so.

Nicosia came in in the 2nd Qualifying round, where they overcame the mighty F91 Dudelang (Luxemburgers, to save you googling) with two 1-0 wins.

And in the 3rd Qualifying round, they triumphed over Viitorul Constanta of Romania - the pet project of Georgi Hagi which he founded in 2009, to play in a 4,500 capacity stadium in the countryside outside Ovidiu, a thriving metropolis of 12,000 people. (Saved you googling that one as well Wink)


Edited by Territorial - 07 Dec 2017 at 4:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:


Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.

 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 

 
atleti, Dortmund, Napoli. I wonder who's next on the hipster hit list...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 3:59pm
Of course they were fooked over - they had to play a full strength Man City side whilst their main rivals for qualification played the second string. No idea how you could argue otherwise. The Feyenoord result doesn't even come into it as they would have known before the game they had a negligible chance of qualifying.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Napoli really got fooked over in their group with Shaktar playing a second string Man City in the final round. I know they lost to Feyenoord but you'd imagine they would have won that if they still had a realistic chance of qualifying and with the better head-to-head record against Shaktar would have gone through if City also took maximum points off the Ukrainians.
 
They had only 6 points from 5 games before last night. Only themselves to blame. And couldn't even do their bit last night.
 
Remind me of Dortmund. Hipster, fashionable club who all of a sudden its "cool" to like, but aren't actually as good as people think.
 
 

I've heard you bang on about this "hipster" term in relation to recently successful teams. It's hardly a surprise that neutrals are going to want to root for sides who play attractive football and are relative underdogs in comparison to the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern etc. 
Napoli would fall under that heading. Their style is good to watch and people hope that they can break the boring hegemony of the usual suspects always winning the big tournaments. It's nothing to do with trying to be hip. 
 
They couldn't even get a result against a poor Feyenoord side last night.
City had enough chances in the second half to get a result last night, would have been unlikely and undeserved but you never say never in football. Napoli unable to do their bit means that I can have very little sympathy for them. They weren't unlucky or "fooked over". Just not good enough to go through.

I'm not challenging the fact that Napoli weren't good enough to go through. I'm challenging the notion that neutrals who get want to see underdog teams (who play decent ball) succeed are all doing it for hipster appeal. That's a bit silly. 
As a football fan, I like to see
a) attractive play.
b) diverse winners. 

Relative new kids on the block like City and PSG are buying success and, while they play super stuff, for that reason they are harder to love. 


Edited by MC Hammered - 07 Dec 2017 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Of course they were fooked over - they had to play a full strength Man City side whilst their main rivals for qualification played the second string. No idea how you could argue otherwise. The Feyenoord result doesn't even come into it as they would have known before the game they had a negligible chance of qualifying.
 
Its got to come into it.
Very unprofessional of them to not even do their bit.
 
Shakhtar were the second best team in the group and deserved to go through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


Relative new kids on the block like City and PSG are buying success and, while they play super stuff, for that reason they are harder to love. 
Wouldn't disagree about the "harder to love" bit, but to lump City in with PSG as "relative new kids" is very harsh, considering their long and reasonably successful history:

Tbh, if they hadn't spent so long in the shadow of their noisy neighbours, they'd be accorded a rather higher status than they currently receive - Arab money or no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Of course they were fooked over - they had to play a full strength Man City side whilst their main rivals for qualification played the second string. No idea how you could argue otherwise. The Feyenoord result doesn't even come into it as they would have known before the game they had a negligible chance of qualifying.
 
Its got to come into it.
Very unprofessional of them to not even do their bit.
 
Shakhtar were the second best team in the group and deserved to go through.
 
I just don't think psychologically they can be in a great place going into that game knowing that Shaktar are almost nailed on at home to City. As I said earlier Napoli beat Shaktar on the head-to-head results so have ever right to be p*ssed off imo.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:27pm
In fairness Dortmund reached a CL Final.
 
Something that Man City have failed to do to date.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

In fairness Dortmund reached a CL Final.
 
Something that Man City have failed to do to date.
 
 
 
That would have been a good point, if I'd have compared Dortmund to City or said they were better than them or something.
 
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