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Booing our players for taking a knee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Pipkin Pipkin wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Listening to Newstalk earlier and they were speculating that a minority of our fans could boo our players for taking a knee in September.

I was livid and hadn't even considered the possibility.  Just seen though that even more Scottish fans (42% v 39%) are opposed to their team doing it than England fans.  

Bad enough as it is to listen to opposing fans booing our players it would be a thousand times worse if any of our own did it.  Anyone think it is going to happen?  My own thoughts are no way and really hope I'm right.        

We have a hell of a lot of idiots following Ireland. 

Look at how many were cheering Delaney in Aarhus 
There are still morons cheering him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 2:31pm

H'on John!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 10:06am
Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?

Jaysus, I've no interest in blm or American politics tetsujin, you could just look it up yourself.

Quick Google search here is the official blm list of demands you can make up your own mind https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/

Anyway, Marxism is a conflict ideology that identify an oppressed and oppressors or as Marx would have said proletariat and bourgeoisie. Blm identify as the oppressed and see the police as oppressors and seek to defund the police (5th on list of demands) not reform the police which is very much needed but get rid of them. 

But make up your own mind. The arrogance of some people on here (not you tetsujin)  sometimes is truly shocking. I dont like the booing and have said repeatedly that I would never boo our team. But booing whether we like it or not is one of the oldest forms of peaceful protest to demonstrate dissatifatction and has been used for 100s of years in theatres and forums.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that right should be taken away. Or should I explain fascism here too?


I'll give an example of the hypocrisy.

Peaceful protest 1 : taking the knee.
Players reasons for the protest: fight racism
People on here: players have said what this protest is for and we should support it.

Peaceful protest 2 : booing taking a knee 
Fans reasons for the protest: no politics in football, taking a knee is an American political movement and nothing to do with England.
People on here : don't care what they say, they are all racist.

People on here know they are hypocritical and just don't care. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?

Jaysus, I've no interest in blm or American politics tetsujin, you could just look it up yourself.

Quick Google search here is the official blm list of demands you can make up your own mind https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/

Anyway, Marxism is a conflict ideology that identify an oppressed and oppressors or as Marx would have said proletariat and bourgeoisie. Blm identify as the oppressed and see the police as oppressors and seek to defund the police (5th on list of demands) not reform the police which is very much needed but get rid of them. 

But make up your own mind. The arrogance of some people on here (not you tetsujin)  sometimes is truly shocking. I dont like the booing and have said repeatedly that I would never boo our team. But booing whether we like it or not is one of the oldest forms of peaceful protest to demonstrate dissatifatction and has been used for 100s of years in theatres and forums.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that right should be taken away. Or should I explain fascism here too?


I'll give an example of the hypocrisy.

Peaceful protest 1 : taking the knee.
Players reasons for the protest: fight racism
People on here: players have said what this protest is for and we should support it.

Peaceful protest 2 : booing taking a knee 
Fans reasons for the protest: no politics in football, taking a knee is an American political movement and nothing to do with England.
People on here : don't care what they say, they are all racist.

People on here know they are hypocritical and just don't care. 

I would imagine, especially in England, the most likely explanation for the booing of taking the knee is because the people booing are racists. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?

Jaysus, I've no interest in blm or American politics tetsujin, you could just look it up yourself.

Quick Google search here is the official blm list of demands you can make up your own mind https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/

Anyway, Marxism is a conflict ideology that identify an oppressed and oppressors or as Marx would have said proletariat and bourgeoisie. Blm identify as the oppressed and see the police as oppressors and seek to defund the police (5th on list of demands) not reform the police which is very much needed but get rid of them. 

But make up your own mind. The arrogance of some people on here (not you tetsujin)  sometimes is truly shocking. I dont like the booing and have said repeatedly that I would never boo our team. But booing whether we like it or not is one of the oldest forms of peaceful protest to demonstrate dissatifatction and has been used for 100s of years in theatres and forums.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that right should be taken away. Or should I explain fascism here too?


I'll give an example of the hypocrisy.

Peaceful protest 1 : taking the knee.
Players reasons for the protest: fight racism
People on here: players have said what this protest is for and we should support it.

Peaceful protest 2 : booing taking a knee 
Fans reasons for the protest: no politics in football, taking a knee is an American political movement and nothing to do with England.
People on here : don't care what they say, they are all racist.

People on here know they are hypocritical and just don't care. 

Define the police doesn't mean what you think it does. It's not "stop giving them money", it's "stop giving them money to buy army grade weaponry and instead fund non violent methods of dealing with crime"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 1:39pm
Which isnt even remotely relevant in Ireland or the UK.

Especially from an Irish context what you just wrote is absolutely hilarious. Take whatever meaning you want to derive from  'defunding the police'. Both are absolutely stupid.

Even in an American context, where all the civilians are allowed to carry weapons do you/they want police officers not to have them? Just fairyland, absurd stuff.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 2:48pm
This thread is not in the spirit of this forum. We come here to talk irish football not global geopolitics. 

Can we have a vote to close this thread and focus on the men in green regardless of whether they're black or white?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 2:55pm
No one is forcing you to comment in this thread. You chose to comment on it and are now being pulled up your comments which you appear to be not happy about answering.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?

Jaysus, I've no interest in blm or American politics tetsujin, you could just look it up yourself.

Quick Google search here is the official blm list of demands you can make up your own mind https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/

Anyway, Marxism is a conflict ideology that identify an oppressed and oppressors or as Marx would have said proletariat and bourgeoisie. Blm identify as the oppressed and see the police as oppressors and seek to defund the police (5th on list of demands) not reform the police which is very much needed but get rid of them. 

But make up your own mind. The arrogance of some people on here (not you tetsujin)  sometimes is truly shocking. I dont like the booing and have said repeatedly that I would never boo our team. But booing whether we like it or not is one of the oldest forms of peaceful protest to demonstrate dissatifatction and has been used for 100s of years in theatres and forums.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that right should be taken away. Or should I explain fascism here too?


I'll give an example of the hypocrisy.

Peaceful protest 1 : taking the knee.
Players reasons for the protest: fight racism
People on here: players have said what this protest is for and we should support it.

Peaceful protest 2 : booing taking a knee 
Fans reasons for the protest: no politics in football, taking a knee is an American political movement and nothing to do with England.
People on here : don't care what they say, they are all racist.

People on here know they are hypocritical and just don't care. 

Define the police doesn't mean what you think it does. It's not "stop giving them money", it's "stop giving them money to buy army grade weaponry and instead fund non violent methods of dealing with crime"

I know you mean defund rather than define but it's truly amazing the amount of people that bark that 'they want to defund the police!' and haven't got a clue what that expression actually means or know that loads of American cities have already done it or are in the process of doing so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

No one is forcing you to comment in this thread. You chose to comment on it and are now being pulled up your comments which you appear to be not happy about answering.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Link to bbc artical on blm and their aims.

BBC Page also has a link to a video of Co founder Patrice Cullors saying that she is a trained Marxist.


For completeness, here is the link to the video on patrisse cullors personal YouTube channel talking about her belief n Marxism 

https://youtu.be/rEp1kxg58kE

What we're you saying about this being absurd? 

Also - booing equals racism is a reductionist view and race baiting like that should be a serious concern.

In your opinion, which of their goals is Marxist? And, can you explain how it is Marxist?
No answer to this?

Jaysus, I've no interest in blm or American politics tetsujin, you could just look it up yourself.

Quick Google search here is the official blm list of demands you can make up your own mind https://blacklivesmatter.com/blm-demands/

Anyway, Marxism is a conflict ideology that identify an oppressed and oppressors or as Marx would have said proletariat and bourgeoisie. Blm identify as the oppressed and see the police as oppressors and seek to defund the police (5th on list of demands) not reform the police which is very much needed but get rid of them. 

But make up your own mind. The arrogance of some people on here (not you tetsujin)  sometimes is truly shocking. I dont like the booing and have said repeatedly that I would never boo our team. But booing whether we like it or not is one of the oldest forms of peaceful protest to demonstrate dissatifatction and has been used for 100s of years in theatres and forums.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that right should be taken away. Or should I explain fascism here too?


I'll give an example of the hypocrisy.

Peaceful protest 1 : taking the knee.
Players reasons for the protest: fight racism
People on here: players have said what this protest is for and we should support it.

Peaceful protest 2 : booing taking a knee 
Fans reasons for the protest: no politics in football, taking a knee is an American political movement and nothing to do with England.
People on here : don't care what they say, they are all racist.

People on here know they are hypocritical and just don't care. 

This is absolute nonsense 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Love the usual arguments about keeping politics out of football and all that nonsense as well. Shut up and dribble type idiocy. 

You're also not allowed have an opinion or express anything about injustices outside of your own context, of course. American anti-racism has nothing to do with Europe, therefore we also shouldn't show any support to Palestine, sure isn't that happening in another place miles away as well.

The fact is taking the knee is just a small demonstration against racism and people who are against the gesture, are uncomfortable about being reminded of what they are kneeling about. Whether they are racists or not isn't really the point, you don't have to be a full blown member of the Irish National Party or KKK to be part of the problem. If you are unhappy with the gesture and starting to get het up about this being an American problem or whatever just shows that you're not listening to the English players or Irish black folks over the last year (minimum). 

And that's not propaganda I see. 

We've heard what the players have had to say. If it really is a harmless gesture of solidarity against racism as they say it is, nobody would boo it and players wouldn't have to answer questions about it. What happened to Floyd was not a football or sporting matter, and it's not for footballers or other sportsmen to take it upon themselves to be seen to do something about it. Taking the knee and doing the Black Power salute is a political symbol that means more to those in the back of the Bronx, than it does in Bognor or Two Mile Borris. Plus, if only one team does it on the pitch, visually it just looks crap, and look more of a pre match habit that has to be seen to be done. Like one team doing the haka and the other staring blankly back. 

Black players have said they won't do it anymore as it's not effective enough. Some teams in the divisions our players play in, have already decided to stop it as they see it has lost it's impact and the message is lost. So if other players who think their beliefs are more important, are still going to defy their fellow professionals and do it anyway, then they should be prepared for a mixed response off the pitch. We can't see who is booing, so some of them may not be old intolerant white male Caucasians either. Booing is not a protest against players, it's a response against the performing of a ritual that people don't want to see anywhere near football, or sport in general. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drog addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Love the usual arguments about keeping politics out of football and all that nonsense as well. Shut up and dribble type idiocy. 

You're also not allowed have an opinion or express anything about injustices outside of your own context, of course. American anti-racism has nothing to do with Europe, therefore we also shouldn't show any support to Palestine, sure isn't that happening in another place miles away as well.

The fact is taking the knee is just a small demonstration against racism and people who are against the gesture, are uncomfortable about being reminded of what they are kneeling about. Whether they are racists or not isn't really the point, you don't have to be a full blown member of the Irish National Party or KKK to be part of the problem. If you are unhappy with the gesture and starting to get het up about this being an American problem or whatever just shows that you're not listening to the English players or Irish black folks over the last year (minimum). 

And that's not propaganda I see. 

We've heard what the players have had to say. If it really is a harmless gesture of solidarity against racism as they say it is, nobody would boo it and players wouldn't have to answer questions about it. What happened to Floyd was not a football or sporting matter, and it's not for footballers or other sportsmen to take it upon themselves to be seen to do something about it. Taking the knee and doing the Black Power salute is a political symbol that means more to those in the back of the Bronx, than it does in Bognor or Two Mile Borris. Plus, if only one team does it on the pitch, visually it just looks crap, and look more of a pre match habit that has to be seen to be done. Like one team doing the haka and the other staring blankly back. 

Black players have said they won't do it anymore as it's not effective enough. Some teams in the divisions our players play in, have already decided to stop it as they see it has lost it's impact and the message is lost. So if other players who think their beliefs are more important, are still going to defy their fellow professionals and do it anyway, then they should be prepared for a mixed response off the pitch. We can't see who is booing, so some of them may not be old intolerant white male Caucasians either. Booing is not a protest against players, it's a racist response against the performing of a ritual that racists don't want to see anywhere near football, or sport in general. 

Fixed that for ya Clown
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theworm2345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Define the police doesn't mean what you think it does. It's not "stop giving them money", it's "stop giving them money to buy army grade weaponry and instead fund non violent methods of dealing with crime"

I know you mean defund rather than define but it's truly amazing the amount of people that bark that 'they want to defund the police!' and haven't got a clue what that expression actually means or know that loads of American cities have already done it or are in the process of doing so. 
Lads, I'm sorry but this is nonsense...and I should state I've got plenty of time for both of you.

You're right, plenty of American cities have done so, both in the manner you stated and the manner that you say that people wrongly believe...and the results have been utterly catastrophic.  I specifically chose the CNN article because these days they are every bit as bad as Fox News, but for the other side of the political divide, so that article is really saying something.

I was in Minneapolis a few weeks ago, the epicenter of all of this, doing some work for my Aunt and Uncle on their house. Every other house there has a Black Lives Matter sign (and several "ACAB" signs in windows).  Here's how things are going for them.

I'd also encourage you to read this Harvard study if you really think that the arms used by police in America are a major issue in the country.

Another of Black Lives Matter's stated goals is the destruction of the nuclear family.  If the above policy hasn't been catastrophic enough so far, I'd encourage you to read up on what the welfare system in America -- basically telling women they get more money from the government if they have more children, but only if there is no man in the house (e.g. don't get married) -- has already done to American families and children (of all races) since the 1960s...and then look at the data on how children of single mothers tend to perform against those of married parents.

I am from Chicago. I lived there for 30 years until last year I got sick of the lockdowns and then the rioting as well as the city telling officers not to arrest rioters.  When I left a year ago, half the city was boarded up. I have studied sociology and criminal justice, I have spent time in the worst neighborhoods in the city (both working there and with people from there), and I even applied to be a Chicago police officer many years ago.  I've seen my friends and teammates get racially abused (though exclusively by immigrants from former Yugoslavia and also Assyria) before and during the times when brawls have broken out on the pitch.  I know all about the legitimately racist policies such as redlining, blockbusting, etc. that created some of the current problems in the city in the 40s, 50s, and 60s...but I also know that in the last 30 years the city has been amongst the country's most "progressive", and things have only gotten worse for the city's neediest people in the last decade.

To sum this all up, I have no doubt that most of the people (and I'm not referring to you two) on this thread are well-intentioned, but I seriously doubt that many of them has any clue about the 'race problems in America' that I've seen referenced. If I had to guess, I'd imagine most of the opinions on here are informed by the nonsense people read on social media (and don't worry, the same is true of the majority of Americans), far more than any real experience or even actually trying to study these issues.

And, for the record, on a personal note, I will always oppose any movement that makes a person's skin color their defining characteristic.  The whole point of the Civil Rights Movement in the US was to remove that from society.


Edited by theworm2345 - 19 Jun 2021 at 7:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by theworm2345 theworm2345 wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Define the police doesn't mean what you think it does. It's not "stop giving them money", it's "stop giving them money to buy army grade weaponry and instead fund non violent methods of dealing with crime"

I know you mean defund rather than define but it's truly amazing the amount of people that bark that 'they want to defund the police!' and haven't got a clue what that expression actually means or know that loads of American cities have already done it or are in the process of doing so. 
Lads, I'm sorry but this is nonsense...and I should state I've got plenty of time for both of you.

You're right, plenty of American cities have done so, both in the manner you stated and the manner that you say that people wrongly believe...and the results have been utterly catastrophic.  I specifically chose the CNN article because these days they are every bit as bad as Fox News, but for the other side of the political divide, so that article is really saying something.

I'd also encourage you to read this Harvard study if you really think that the arms used by police in America are a major issue in the country.

Another of Black Lives Matter's stated goals is the destruction of the nuclear family.  If the above policy hasn't been catastrophic enough so far, I'd encourage you to read up on what the welfare system in America -- basically telling women they get more money from the government if they have more children, but only if there is no man in the house (e.g. don't get married) -- has already done to American families and children (of all races) since the 1960s...and then look at the data on how children of single mothers tend to perform against those of married parents.

I am from Chicago. I lived there for 30 years until last year I got sick of the lockdowns and then the rioting as well as the city telling officers not to arrest rioters.  When I left a year ago, half the city was boarded up. I have studied sociology and criminal justice, I have spent time in the worst neighborhoods in the city (both working there and with people from there), and I even applied to be a Chicago police officer many years ago.  I've seen my friends and teammates get racially abused (though exclusively by immigrants from former Yugoslavia and also Assyria) before and during the times when brawls have broken out on the pitch.  I know all about the legitimately racist policies such as redlining, blockbusting, etc. that created some of the current problems in the city in the 40s, 50s, and 60s...but I also know that in the last 30 years the city has been amongst the country's most "progressive", and things have only gotten worse for the city's neediest people in the last decade.

To sum this all up, I have no doubt that most of the people (and I'm not referring to you two) on this thread are well-intentioned, but I seriously doubt that many of them has any clue about the 'race problems in America' that I've seen referenced. If I had to guess, I'd imagine most of the opinions on here are informed by the nonsense people read on social media (and don't worry, the same is true of the majority of Americans), far more than any real experience or even actually trying to study these issues.

I never passed comment on the right or wrong of it. I simply said that the majority of people on this side of the Atlantic parroting the expression have no idea what it means.

There's another piece that goes into detail on it.



Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 19 Jun 2021 at 7:50pm
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by theworm2345 theworm2345 wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

Define the police doesn't mean what you think it does. It's not "stop giving them money", it's "stop giving them money to buy army grade weaponry and instead fund non violent methods of dealing with crime"

I know you mean defund rather than define but it's truly amazing the amount of people that bark that 'they want to defund the police!' and haven't got a clue what that expression actually means or know that loads of American cities have already done it or are in the process of doing so. 
Lads, I'm sorry but this is nonsense...and I should state I've got plenty of time for both of you.

You're right, plenty of American cities have done so, both in the manner you stated and the manner that you say that people wrongly believe...and the results have been utterly catastrophic.  I specifically chose the CNN article because these days they are every bit as bad as Fox News, but for the other side of the political divide, so that article is really saying something.

I'd also encourage you to read this Harvard study if you really think that the arms used by police in America are a major issue in the country.

Another of Black Lives Matter's stated goals is the destruction of the nuclear family.  If the above policy hasn't been catastrophic enough so far, I'd encourage you to read up on what the welfare system in America -- basically telling women they get more money from the government if they have more children, but only if there is no man in the house (e.g. don't get married) -- has already done to American families and children (of all races) since the 1960s...and then look at the data on how children of single mothers tend to perform against those of married parents.

I am from Chicago. I lived there for 30 years until last year I got sick of the lockdowns and then the rioting as well as the city telling officers not to arrest rioters.  When I left a year ago, half the city was boarded up. I have studied sociology and criminal justice, I have spent time in the worst neighborhoods in the city (both working there and with people from there), and I even applied to be a Chicago police officer many years ago.  I've seen my friends and teammates get racially abused (though exclusively by immigrants from former Yugoslavia and also Assyria) before and during the times when brawls have broken out on the pitch.  I know all about the legitimately racist policies such as redlining, blockbusting, etc. that created some of the current problems in the city in the 40s, 50s, and 60s...but I also know that in the last 30 years the city has been amongst the country's most "progressive", and things have only gotten worse for the city's neediest people in the last decade.

To sum this all up, I have no doubt that most of the people (and I'm not referring to you two) on this thread are well-intentioned, but I seriously doubt that many of them has any clue about the 'race problems in America' that I've seen referenced. If I had to guess, I'd imagine most of the opinions on here are informed by the nonsense people read on social media (and don't worry, the same is true of the majority of Americans), far more than any real experience or even actually trying to study these issues.

I never passed comment on the right or wrong of it. I simply said that the majority of people on this side of the Atlantic parroting the expression have no idea what it means.

There's another piece that goes into detail on it.


Really interesting and pretty depressing information @theworm. It seems that its already fallen on deaf ears with drumcondra who fails to see that the states that have defunded the police have ALL seen spikes in the murder rate year on year (portland % increase is shocking) and have now begun "refunding the police." Its been a complete disaster. 

Like theworm has said, all done with good intentions. But as the saying goes - the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The inability of people to simply look for themselves on this is astonishing. Just emotional cries of racism.

I seriously doubt that "taking the knee" will last into next season and hopefully it can be replaced with something that will unite rather than divide

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