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Bloody Sunday; after 38 years....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote criostoir Óg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 2:41am
Originally posted by Honey Monster Honey Monster wrote:

Originally posted by Críostóir Óg Críostóir Óg wrote:

AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry
Not A SINGLE word about 14 people murdered by the state

Allister comments on Saville

Posted on 15/06/10 and tagged under Policies

Jim%20Allister%20MEP

Statement by TUV Leader Jim Allister QC:-
 
"My primary thoughts today are with the thousands of innocent victims of the IRA who have never had justice, nor benefitted from any inquiry into why their loved one's died. Thus today's jamboree over the Saville Report throws into very sharp relief the unacceptable and perverse hierarchy of victims which the preferential treatment of 'Bloody Sunday' has created.
 
"The finding that Martin McGuinness was armed with a sub machine gun, and that he didn't tell the truth about it, does not surprise me, rather it confirms my view of his perpetual unfitness for government."


 
Unf**kingbelievable AngryAngryAngryAngryAngry
 
I see they are "considering" pressing criminal charges against some of the paras, not a chance that'll happen....
 
 
Would be the fairest trial since the Guilford Four were in the dock...


Good to see that Gregory Campbell also extending his heartfelt sympathies to the people murdered by his beloved army...perhaps not:

Originally posted by Gregory Campbell Gregory Campbell wrote:

Gregory Campbell responds to Saville Report

DUP MP Gregory Campbell said:

“There are thousands of people throughout the United Kingdom who have been denied justice and may never know who was responsible for the death of their loved ones. They have had no costly inquiries nor have they received the attention of the international press corps. There have been more than 30 years worth of bloody days in Northern Ireland’s recent history. Those affected by those days have been left to deal with their grief in their own private way without the largesse of the state or the lionising of the media.

I am glad that the Prime Minister in his comments to the House made mention of the two innocent police officers that were murdered by the Provisional IRA just two days before the march in Londonderry. In so doing he did more than Lord Saville did. We did not need a £200million inquiry to establish that there was no premeditated plan to shoot civilians on that day. We did not need an inquiry of this length to tell us that as a consequence of IRA actions prior to that day, parts of Londonderry “lay in ruins” to use Lord Saville’s own words. I want to nail right now the lie that what happened on Bloody Sunday provided in any single solitary way a justification for the evil that the Provisional IRA wrought upon the people of Northern Ireland. I fear that this report will be used to try and argue that point by those who want to absolve themselves of guilt for their actions.

It has been said that the difference between Bloody Sunday and other deaths carried out by terrorists is that Bloody Sunday was carried out by state forces. If the involvement of the state is the key issue in determining what deaths are investigated and what are not, why then has there been no inquiry in to the involvement of the Irish Republic in the establishment of the Provisional IRA in the first place? The Irish state acted as a midwife at the birth of an organisation responsible for the murdering of many thousands of United Kingdom citizens. People will be glad that that this sorry saga of a report is finally over and done with. I want to place on record our thanks and appreciation to the entire Army, for the role they played in defeating terrorism and bringing peace and stability to Northern Ireland.”

 



Edited by Críostóir Óg - 16 Jun 2010 at 3:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 3:21am
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

That **** Campbell was on Prime Time just now (wasn't a live interview) and basically said that the British Soldiers actions were justified because they weren't to know there was no weapons. Prick Angry
 
 
Campbells comments on Spotlight last night were a disgrace
point blank refused on a couple of occasions to say that the killings were unjustified, the interviewer asked him well a british lawyer has studied it for 12 years and your PM has come out and said u cant defend the indefensible, can you now agree with David Cameron.....and he wouldnt
 
 
then he went onto say there shud be enquiries into ira murders as that organisation was funded by the irish government
 
he said Saville never said why the paras were brought into the bogside, the interviewer said well its mentioned 3 times in the report that they were brought in because of a murder of a policeman 3 days before
 
it was then put to him that a lot of those killed were unarmed, 17 year old boys, many of whom were shot while lying on the ground injured and others were shot with their backs to the soldiers while running away - but again Campbell wudnt condemn it and defended the soldiers
 
he also said that why shud we take this Saville enquiry as the truth and dismiss the Widgery report that was carried out a few months after bloody sunday as false Angry
 
commentators who are normally moderate and middle of the road such as eamon mccann and dennis bradley were raging with him last nite - mccann saying he's full of sectarian venom and is a disgrace.
they had a British QC on some fella Mansfield who also said what Campbell was saying was completely ridiculous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sligo Hornet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 3:26am

The verdict (albeit decades too late) was just and right, but it is scandalous that it is likely that noone will be held to account

 
Wallet ?? What the fcuk is that ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 5:28am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

That **** Campbell was on Prime Time just now (wasn't a live interview) and basically said that the British Soldiers actions were justified because they weren't to know there was no weapons. Prick Angry
 
 
Campbells comments on Spotlight last night were a disgrace
point blank refused on a couple of occasions to say that the killings were unjustified, the interviewer asked him well a british lawyer has studied it for 12 years and your PM has come out and said u cant defend the indefensible, can you now agree with David Cameron.....and he wouldnt
 
 
then he went onto say there shud be enquiries into ira murders as that organisation was funded by the irish government
 
he said Saville never said why the paras were brought into the bogside, the interviewer said well its mentioned 3 times in the report that they were brought in because of a murder of a policeman 3 days before
 
it was then put to him that a lot of those killed were unarmed, 17 year old boys, many of whom were shot while lying on the ground injured and others were shot with their backs to the soldiers while running away - but again Campbell wudnt condemn it and defended the soldiers
 
he also said that why shud we take this Saville enquiry as the truth and dismiss the Widgery report that was carried out a few months after bloody sunday as false Angry
 
commentators who are normally moderate and middle of the road such as eamon mccann and dennis bradley were raging with him last nite - mccann saying he's full of sectarian venom and is a disgrace.
they had a British QC on some fella Mansfield who also said what Campbell was saying was completely ridiculous
he also said that the the only reason for Para's were in the North were because of the IRA - incorrect.
The reason for Army was initially to protect the Catholics from attacks from loyalist mobs let by Paisley and his crew.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote criostoir Óg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 5:31am
Originally posted by horsebox1977 horsebox1977 wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

That **** Campbell was on Prime Time just now (wasn't a live interview) and basically said that the British Soldiers actions were justified because they weren't to know there was no weapons. Prick Angry
 
 
Campbells comments on Spotlight last night were a disgrace
point blank refused on a couple of occasions to say that the killings were unjustified, the interviewer asked him well a british lawyer has studied it for 12 years and your PM has come out and said u cant defend the indefensible, can you now agree with David Cameron.....and he wouldnt
 
 
then he went onto say there shud be enquiries into ira murders as that organisation was funded by the irish government
 
he said Saville never said why the paras were brought into the bogside, the interviewer said well its mentioned 3 times in the report that they were brought in because of a murder of a policeman 3 days before
 
it was then put to him that a lot of those killed were unarmed, 17 year old boys, many of whom were shot while lying on the ground injured and others were shot with their backs to the soldiers while running away - but again Campbell wudnt condemn it and defended the soldiers
 
he also said that why shud we take this Saville enquiry as the truth and dismiss the Widgery report that was carried out a few months after bloody sunday as false Angry
 
commentators who are normally moderate and middle of the road such as eamon mccann and dennis bradley were raging with him last nite - mccann saying he's full of sectarian venom and is a disgrace.
they had a British QC on some fella Mansfield who also said what Campbell was saying was completely ridiculous
he also said that the the only reason for Para's were in the North were because of the IRA - incorrect.
The reason for Army was initially to protect the Catholics from attacks from loyalist mobs let by Paisley and his crew.
You make Big Ian sound cool Cool




Edited by Críostóir Óg - 16 Jun 2010 at 5:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dunloybhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 5:36am
the views of the unionists who have been interviewed has been nothing short of pathetic.
 
showed themselves as nothing but bigiots. not once have they mentioned the victims who were murdered
put em under pressure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 5:56am
pathetic is right
 
even if the paras were in derry that day because of a murder a few days before, does that give them the right to murder innocent civilians many of whom were still children??
 
the QC who was on last night spoke very well
he said the most important thing with this compared to all the other killings in the troubles is that this was state murder by men in uniform who were supposed to be there keeping peace and protecting people
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 11:30am
I'll bet this wasn't printed in the Oirish edition of the Daily Mail:
 
 
AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry 
 
Quote

The low thump, thump, thump, was unmistakable. It was the sound of the Thompson machine gun, a chunky low-velocity weapon.

We all knew it was the IRA's weapon of choice. They liked its macho feel, and had used it on us a couple of weeks earlier when we were patrolling on the nearby Lonemoor Road.

But they had not hit any soldiers that day; they'd hit and injured a 12-year-old girl. 

The sound this time came from somewhere near the Rossville Flats in the Bogside, a nationalist area of Londonderry and a known stronghold of the IRA.

I was standing looking down on the Bogside when I heard it, with Sgt Garrett, my second-in-command in the Coldstream Guards. I asked him to note down the time  -  4pm on January 30, 1972, and then we moved rapidly down the hill towards the sound of the gunfire.



The Army was returning fire now, and the fight was growing in intensity. Not many hours afterwards, 13 men lay dead, seven of them teenagers. Another man was to die four-and-a-half months later.

What happened on Bloody Sunday was a terrible thing, not just for the affected civilians, but also for the Army.




Witnesses testified that the killed and injured were unarmed, that some were shot in the back, that civilian protestors were injured when Army vehicles ran over them.

Today the actions of the soldiers who returned fire against the IRA that day will almost certainly be declared by Lord Saville to have been unlawful and, 38 years after the event, this will increase pressure for their prosecution.

The killings may or may not have been unlawful  -  but it is my firm view that it is not possible to judge with any certainty after an interval of more than 30 years whether they were or not.

Furthermore, the £190million expense of this inquiry is nothing less than obscene when British soldiers have been dying in Iraq and Afghanistan daily for want of vital equipment and cuts in the defence budget.



But what I find perhaps most distasteful about this 12-year-long inquiry is that the role of British soldiers in Northern Ireland has been brushed aside for the sake of political expediency.

The truth is that peace was brought to the Province not by Prime Minister Blair, kowtowing to former terrorists such as Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness.

It came to Northern Ireland as a result of the courage of the British Army, the Ulster Defence Regiment, the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the intelligence services.

By the time Blair offered this inquiry as a sop to Republicans, the IRA had already been militarily defeated by the very soldiers whose reputation he knew it would undermine.

The events of Bloody Sunday were terrifying, fast-moving and chaotic. But as I told the inquiry when called as a witness, there is one thing of which I am absolutely certain.

It was the IRA who started the firing with the Thompson machine gun  -  and, inflammatory though it may sound, I believe they started firing with the express intention of causing civilian deaths.

The security forces' policy was to contain the nationalist civilian protest planned that day behind steel barriers in the Bogside  -  to prevent them from entering the Protestant area of the city. The Army was on one side of the barriers, the protest on the other.



Brigade orders were that the Army should not enter the Bogside  -  for it was known through intelligence sources that the IRA intended to create a bloodbath by drawing the security forces into a firefight with their gunmen in the middle of the civil rights march.

But when I and my second-in-command got down there, we were astonished to find that the barricades had been drawn aside and the paras were moving through into the Bogside, exchanging fire with the IRA gunmen who mostly seemed to be firing from the blocks of flats facing us.

I asked one of the platoon commanders why they had ignored orders.

He told me, above the increasing sound of firing and the screaming from the scattering crowds in front of us, that they had been told to do so by the Commander Land Forces.

It was rumoured that the commander had been irritated by the stones and nail bombs that were being thrown by some of the crowd and had decided to overrule the brigade order and told the paras to arrest the troublemakers. It was a disastrous decision.

I soon found myself taking cover beside a paratrooper who was lying in a gutter by the corner of a building, carefully firing up at the opposite blocks of flats.

When I asked him what he was firing at, he pointed at some crouched figures running along the balconies of the flats. I could see that at least one of them was carrying a rifle.

As I lay in the gutter, I could see bullets hitting the wall of the building above me. There was no doubt that the IRA gunmen were firing from their positions on the galleries of the flats opposite, where I was taking cover.

In my view, it is entirely possible that they could have been responsible for some of the civilian deaths, shooting from on high down into the streets below where the crowd was trying to escape from the killing zone.


But it was absolutely clear that in exchanging fire with the terrorists, the British Army had fallen into the trap laid for them by the IRA, who had set out that day to commit murder and mayhem, caring nothing for the lives of their own republican supporters.

Indeed, I believe it was their specific aim to get as many people killed as possible. For the deaths would serve as a ruthlessly cynical recruiting tool. As the news of the dead in Londonderry that day spread around the world, the result was much the same as Irish people everywhere rallied to the nationalist cause.

In Northern Ireland, in the Irish Republic and in the U.S., thousands of young men and women joined the IRA.

The people of Northern Ireland and the British Army have already paid a high price for what happened on Bloody Sunday, for the consequence of the decision to move the barricades and exchange fire with the terrorists was to heighten and prolong the conflict, probably by decades, with massive loss of life, suffering and destruction.

The decision to hold the Saville Inquiry has been little more than a grotesquely expensive exercise in propaganda, designed by Blair to bring the IRA further into the political process.

But as I have said, the IRA had already been militarily defeated. They had been forced into taking the political route only because they had no further military options to pursue.

How ironic now that the soldiers who brought peace to Northern Ireland are likely to be treated as criminals as a result of this inquiry, while former terrorists such as McGuinness and Adams  -  who did everything to prevent peace  -  are feted in their roles as ministers.

Nor should the effect of the Saville Inquiry on the British soldiers fighting today in Afghanistan be underestimated. Some will be the sons and even grandsons of those being accused of unlawful killing.

Even if they are not, they will be asking themselves whether each time they open fire on the Taliban, they might not, in some distant future inquiry, be asked to justify their actions. This is no way to go to war.

If anyone should be the subject of a judicial process, it is Tony Blair. He should be held to account for his actions in launching the disastrous, costly and unnecessary war in Iraq.

Meanwhile, it will be the British Army and people who bear the cost of this equally disastrous, costly and unnecessary inquiry.

General Sir Michael Rose is the former Head of UN Troops in Bosnia



 
 
 
 
 
AngryAngryAngryAngryAngry 
 
 
Fcuking prick
 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 12:21pm
Gregory Campbell is a **** of the highest order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 2:56pm
Pro Army propangda - does any one actually read or take notice of that tripe.
The news about Bloody Sunday will be shown around the world - and the truth is out and will show what everyone already knew - A - These people were innocent and B:\ The British are murdering pigs.
 
These DUP bigots will just about say anything -
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Belfast Green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 2:58pm

The warm up for Bloody sunday happened in Ballymurphy five months before they murdered the 14 innocent people in Derry.

The same units from 1st Para murdered 11 civilians in August 71 over a three day period in Ballymurphy, including a Priest who was murdered while waiving a white hankerchief as he tried to reach a parishioner who had been shot.

They also murdered a mother of 8 who had the side of her head blown off by a para sniper as she tried to help another man who had been shot on open ground.
 
Guess what, the paratroopers claimed all those murdered were armed inlcuding the parish priest and the mother of 8.
 
No weapons were recovered from any of the victims and no forensic evidence found that any had been handling weapons.
 
General Rose and his bosses should be hanging their heads in shame instead of justifying the slaughter of innocent people.
 
 
 


Edited by Belfast Green - 16 Jun 2010 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Yank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 3:08pm
Would love to see criminal proceedings but from all I read that is a slim chance at best.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Belfast Green Belfast Green wrote:

The warm up for Bloody sunday happened in Ballymurphy five months before they murdered the 14 innocent people in Derry.

The same units from 1st Para murdered 11 civilians in August 71 over a three day period in Ballymurphy, including a Priest who was murdered while waving a white hankerchief as he tried to reach a parishioner who had been shot.

They also murdered a mother of 8 who had the side of her head blown off by a para sniper as she tried to help another man who had been shot on open ground.
 
Guess what, the paratroopers claimed all those murdered were armed inlcuding the parish priest and the mother of 8.
 
No weapons were recovered from any of the victims and no forensic evidence found that any had been handling weapons.
 
General Rose and his bosses should be hanging their heads in shame instead of justifying the slaughter of innocent people.
 
 
 
The British Army killed 299 civilians in the north - I think 77 of them were children - Did any of them get an inquiry?  How many people were injured with plastic bullets?
Those DUP follows (loyalists) killed more people than anyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honey Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2010 at 6:10pm
They're looking to do some of the paras for perjury.....what about doing them for f**king murder????

Edited by Honey Monster - 16 Jun 2010 at 6:11pm
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Bloody Sunday memorial vandalised

Monday, 21 June 2010 12:58

A Bloody Sunday memorial has been vandalised in Derry.

The carved brick structure, which is in the Bogside, was damaged over the weekend.

The SDLP has condemned those responsible, saying it was insensitive to the families affected by the Saville Report.

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Separately, British Paratroopers from the battalion involved in Bloody Sunday have claimed that the Saville inquiry was 'fundamentally flawed'.

An open letter handed to the Daily Telegraph newspaper on behalf of 35 members of 1st Battalion read: 'We believe the inquiry as convened was fundamentally flawed and its conclusions based upon a subjective interpretation of only some of the evidence adduced before it.'

The paratroopers also criticised Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness.

'A more untruthful and unreliable witness would be hard to find,' they claimed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The_Yank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2010 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Honey Monster Honey Monster wrote:

They're looking to do some of the paras for perjury.....what about doing them for f**king murder????


Most of them were given immunity from prosecution in exchange for their cooperation Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2010 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by The_Yank The_Yank wrote:


Originally posted by Honey Monster Honey Monster wrote:

They're looking to do some of the paras for perjury.....what about doing them for f**king murder????
Most of them were given immunity from prosecution in exchange for their cooperation Angry


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