"bit of balls" thread ( keane podcast)

RogerMilla wrote: Citizen wrote: RogerMilla wrote: Citizen wrote: RogerMilla wrote: i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green your not grasping reality roger...the alternatives to kilbane, stephen kelly, stephen ward, kevin foley, john o'shea......alternatives for paul green, james mccarthy, stephen reid (horrendusly treated by trap), lawence, gibson, pure bonkers suggestions alright.....PLease name all the world class players (bar arshavin)Russia have Roger, they didn't qualify for the world cup ? i don't see how you think they are world beaters? Your mindset is what frustrates me and is the same inferiority complex that the team have(the excuse culture), i really am disappointed that you are coming out with such absolute bile, i really thought your understanding of international football was better tbh. you misread me , i agree that kilbane and green have to go , i am saying that fellas here want robbie keane , glenn whelan and aiden mcgeady dropped ! they want us to field a whole new 11 in a friendly when players need to be blooded in along with the established stars , as for the russians i know eff all about russian football , what i know is that they were awesome in the last euros, lost out freakily in a playoff for the world cup , have a league that is on the way up , a population 70 times bigger than our own and that they made an absolute show of us in dublin last month , they are miles ahead of us , and your solution to bring us to their level is " a bit of balls " dont make me laugh    Greece won euro 2004, and have consistently qualified for tournaments since...so whats your point?, i think most people would agree we have a better squad of players than Greece... no , no we dont and you are codding yourself if you think we do

now i know you are talking absolute smack....

I forgot you are from mayo, the most renowned bottlers in GAA history, no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes

RogerMilla wrote: Citizen wrote: no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes when it comes down to it your whole argument here is utter rot , you can get personal all you like but when you have figured out what bile is , decided whether you want ireland to be more like meath or russia or norn iron , or can tell me exactly why "a bit of balls " and a different manager would have us beating the likes of russia all the time , then get back to me , until then reading your posts will be an utter waste of mine , and everyone elses time . we do not have the quality to top these groups , there is a reason we have been in playoffs perpetually ( except for under useless stan) and it is not your simplistic analysis, it is becuase we do not have players of the quality needed and thats all there is to it , suggesting that fellas and management need " a bit of balls " is a pure insult to the massive effort they make and is akin to the roar of a bar-room buffoon raging at the telly as if he actually has any idea of what goes on at the elite levels of sport before he turns back to the bar , farts and clears the place.

if you think greece are a better team than us then you are clearly not in tune with world football. we have always performed admirably at tournaments we have got to and everyone knows we were hard done by in paris...i hate to refer to it...but do you honestly think if greece had of got france in the play offs they would have performed as good as we did and got to wc2010? no chance, they struggled against ukraine and the chances ukraine had, they should have qualified for wc2010.

RogerMilla wrote: Citizen wrote: no wonder if ye have such defeatist attitudes when it comes down to it your whole argument here is utter rot , you can get personal all you like but when you have figured out what bile is , decided whether you want ireland to be more like meath or russia or norn iron , or can tell me exactly why "a bit of balls " and a different manager would have us beating the likes of russia all the time , then get back to me , until then reading your posts will be an utter waste of mine , and everyone elses time . we do not have the quality to top these groups , there is a reason we have been in playoffs perpetually ( except for under useless stan) and it is not your simplistic analysis, it is becuase we do not have players of the quality needed and thats all there is to it , suggesting that fellas and management need " a bit of balls " is a pure insult to the massive effort they make and is akin to the roar of a bar-room buffoon raging at the telly as if he actually has any idea of what goes on at the elite levels of sport before he turns back to the bar , farts and clears the place.

your argument does not make sense, i have explained my logic, i'll explain it easier for you as you do not seem to understand it,,, your are saying we do not have the quality of squad,,,,,iam saying if we benchmark our quality against other nations who are topping groups and qualifying for tournaments we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!

Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football...

Citizen wrote: we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football...

we have been unable to beat switzerland for years.

slovakia and greece and denmark are seeded higher than us which not only gives them a better chance of qualifying but actually gives them easier teams to beat than we encounter, but it also means that they win more games than we do ! , greece have better players than we do and denmark normally give a good account of themselves but i am not here to defend them , i am here to say that we should nto expect to beat these teams , by your rational a bit of balls is all thats between us and world domination !! you are completely wrong in this , we need better players!! until the next roy keane or liam brady or paul mcgrath comes then we are always going to be dividing our time between 2nd and 3rd seeds and living in playoffsville , i dotn agree with your analysis and i find it simplistic , you have said nothing here to convince me otherwise

RogerMilla wrote: Citizen wrote: we have simliar if not better players,,,i refer to counties like denmark, slovenia, slovakia, greece, switzerland...can you understand this?....and more importantly do you have a reasoned rebuttal that counters this, as so far i don't think you have answered this that doesn't involve you repeating yourself and saying my argument is rubbish!Also you make sweeping statements that Russia have world class players in one breath and in the next reveal you do not know anything about Russian football... we have been unable to beat switzerland for years. slovakia and greece and denmark are seeded higher than us which not only gives them a better chance of qualifying but actually gives them easier teams to beat than we encounter, but it also means that they win more games than we do ! , greece have better players than we do and denmark normally give a good account of themselves but i am not here to defend them , i am here to say that we should nto expect to beat these teams , by your rational a bit of balls is all thats between us and world domination !! you are completely wrong in this , we need better players!! until the next roy keane or liam brady or paul mcgrath comes then we are always going to be dividing our time between 2nd and 3rd seeds and living in playoffsville , i dotn agree with your analysis and i find it simplistic , you have said nothing here to convince me otherwise

Yet again your dodging the question!!!

Do they have better quality of players than us or not?


Greece have a better squad than us? what irish player would not get in the greek team?

I never once said a bit of balls is the key to world domination!!!...but it sure was the difference between us going to the world cup and not, and it sure was the difference betweem getting 3pts in slovakia and not,

Under Trap we have had more bad performances than good, it beggars belief that you think we are over-achieving....


..i find your analysis remedial tbh...look at blackpool in the prem this year, a bit of balls, having trust in your players, goes a long way...

RogerMilla wrote: trapped wrote: The reality is we are nowhere near maximising the potential of our squad. dont agree with any of what you said above, i think you lads are not grasping the reality that we are not good enough , you want fellas who have very little experience brought in and then you expect them to make the step up immediately , i agree trap has been remiss about kilbane and green and that he is conservative, but the alternatives that some fellas on here are proposing is pure daftness

I don't think it's daft to say that James McCarthy should have been in our squads long before this. Even if he wasn't playing he should've been in the squads to get used to the players around him. He is the future for us, but Trap wouldn't pick him - instead he chose players with blatantly less ability. Every player needs time to gel into a squad but that cannot happen if he is not selected.

Anthony Stokes has scored 8 goals in 11 apperances for Celtic but still can't get into the squad for this friendly. What would be daft about having him in the team?

Andy Reid has consistently shown his creative capabilities over the last few years but Trap has refused to pick him when we've been crying out for some creativity in midfield. It would've been far from daft to include him at any stage in my opinion. 

There is no way we have been maximising the potential of our squad.

RogerMilla and Stoked Up, you both seem to have an inferiority complex about our team where you don't believe we have a right to be competing. You use the fact we are a small country as an excuse for us not playing well. If we didn't have the players i would say fair enough, but we do have the players and we are not using them.

CPS89 wrote: demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008. look at where the players are that trap chose in wc qualifying ahead of clearly more talented players. whelan, not even starting for stoke now best, not starting for newcastle folan, no idea where he is andrews, injures and will have a hard time breaking into the blackburn team when he comes back lawrence, playing in the championship for portsmouth mcshane, playing for hull in championship kilbane, not even on the bench for hull now with a team like this i can understand people saying we shouldn't get our hopes up but look at the players trap wasn't playing foley, getting rave reviews this season for goals and performances coleman, keeping bilyatdinov out of everton team (a player who is RUSSIAN!) and putting in some assists and goals fahey, finally getting some games at birmingham which should have been the case last season mccarthy, arguably wigan's best player with nzogbia wilson, pompey's best player last season and had a huge part to play in getting them to the fa cup final stokes, scored goals for fun last season at hibernian, 2 against glasgow rangers and now bangin em in with celtic as well it really just doesn't make sense at all....all these players clearly had the potential in the wc qualifying campaign or in friendlies since and there was no reason why they couldn't be used and settled in the team for this campaign

Not to mention Andy Reid. Imagine if he was coming on instead of Gibson or McShane in Paris.

Jokerman wrote: CPS89 wrote: demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008. look at where the players are that trap chose in wc qualifying ahead of clearly more talented players. whelan, not even starting for stoke now best, not starting for newcastle folan, no idea where he is andrews, injures and will have a hard time breaking into the blackburn team when he comes back lawrence, playing in the championship for portsmouth mcshane, playing for hull in championship kilbane, not even on the bench for hull now with a team like this i can understand people saying we shouldn't get our hopes up but look at the players trap wasn't playing foley, getting rave reviews this season for goals and performances coleman, keeping bilyatdinov out of everton team (a player who is RUSSIAN!) and putting in some assists and goals fahey, finally getting some games at birmingham which should have been the case last season mccarthy, arguably wigan's best player with nzogbia wilson, pompey's best player last season and had a huge part to play in getting them to the fa cup final stokes, scored goals for fun last season at hibernian, 2 against glasgow rangers and now bangin em in with celtic as well it really just doesn't make sense at all....all these players clearly had the potential in the wc qualifying campaign or in friendlies since and there was no reason why they couldn't be used and settled in the team for this campaign Not to mention Andy Reid. Imagine if he was coming on instead of Gibson or McShane in Paris.

true

CPS89 wrote: demographics of a country is such a cop out of an argument...croatia, a country with a population smaller than us got to the semi finals of wc98 and were one of the favourites for euro 2008.

They massively overachieved then and you conveniently forget to mention that like ourselves, they failed to qualify for the last WC. That said, Croatia is an absolute hotbed of soccer and the standards are generally much higher than here.

foley, coleman, fahey, mccarthy, wilson, stokes,

You mention all these lads in relation to the lads who played in the last campaign. Can't you see that there's little difference between all of them?

I've snipped your comments because clearly you don't really follow the progress of Irish lads playing in England to make plausible cases for their squad inclusion.
Many of the lads on either side of your argument, were not getting their games at their clubs last season and some this season. Your argument is nonsensical. Replacing like with like, won't suddenly transform us.

Look, I'll say it again, which I've said before in similar threads.
Trap decides the tactics and the players that suits, not us. Of course we all want our own favourites to play, (In the past I've made cases for Delap as an impact sub and McCarthy) but he's sees guys that fit the bill and others that don't.

And yes, we have overachieved with Trap, certainly in comparism to the previous three previous campaigns. What else have we to go on?
Arguably, we had better players 4-6 years ago when the likes of Keane/Duff/Dunne/Givens/Finnan/Carr were in their prime and did not even make play offs..

Anyone who cannot see that, is no different from the average barstooler that comes up with knee jerk reactions as to why we are not better than we are and offering the instant solution by naming bit players who will suddenly transform us into world beaters.
This is the sort of rationale that has our neighbours across the pond scratching their heads as to why they mostly underachieve.