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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 12:56am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

How are Bray basically full time when they're only getting 650 through the gates?
how best to sell a football ground? Make sure no team are playing in it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:22am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I agree regarding UCD Bitored, they are definitely the best ran club in the league, they must be the only club that has never had a financial worry, but surely they can get more than a 100 people to watch them! They have 30,000 students plus staff and alumni, I don't think it is unrealistic to think they could attract a few hundred more to their games.
I agree with you but like I`ve said I can see why they have problems.
Its not as simple as saying there`s a catchment area of 30,000 they should be getting guaranteed semi decent crowds.
Sporting Fingal, Dublin City, Kildare, Kilkenny et.al operated on a similar assumption and went tits up.
 
A club is a community and its very difficult to form a community in a college where many of those 30,000 are from outside the area/country, some are distance learners, some are part time, some commute into Belfield from all over the commuter belt, some are on work experience, some have zero interest in the LOI and never will etc.
 
I think if UCD operated in a league where there were teams with star quality they may do better. But the league just doesn't have the a big name/appeal to significantly boost the attendances of a collegiate side.
 
As I`ve said already, in my view the best thing for UCD and the league would be if UCD and Cabinteely formed a co-op side in partnership with 2 or 3 big south side junior clubs. A platform they could use to represent the south side of Dublin, which despite the saturation of Dublin clubs remains underrepresented. That makes more sense to me than Cabinteely and UCD playing in front of no one.
No reason UCD couldn't maintain a FD side and their current U15,U17 and U19 sides and continue the great work they do bringing though quality players.
 
That kind of strategic thinking just isn't in the league and we`re set up for another scramble in the not too distant future when the next club goes to the wall and there`s a mad dash to see does any other Dublin junior club fancy a few years in the LOI.
I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daragho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 10:35am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Daragho Daragho wrote:

80 estimate at UCD? Jaysus, I'm surprised someone didn't go around and count them by hand.

I don't understand why Pats don't release official figures. They're available, because all tickets are scanned electronically.
Embarrassment?

They're hardly alone there, though. I know Pats crowds have been poor for some time but if you bury your head in the sand and pretend you don't have a problem then you're not going to fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I agree regarding UCD Bitored, they are definitely the best ran club in the league, they must be the only club that has never had a financial worry, but surely they can get more than a 100 people to watch them! They have 30,000 students plus staff and alumni, I don't think it is unrealistic to think they could attract a few hundred more to their games.
I agree with you but like I`ve said I can see why they have problems.
Its not as simple as saying there`s a catchment area of 30,000 they should be getting guaranteed semi decent crowds.
Sporting Fingal, Dublin City, Kildare, Kilkenny et.al operated on a similar assumption and went tits up.
 
A club is a community and its very difficult to form a community in a college where many of those 30,000 are from outside the area/country, some are distance learners, some are part time, some commute into Belfield from all over the commuter belt, some are on work experience, some have zero interest in the LOI and never will etc.
 
I think if UCD operated in a league where there were teams with star quality they may do better. But the league just doesn't have the a big name/appeal to significantly boost the attendances of a collegiate side.
 
As I`ve said already, in my view the best thing for UCD and the league would be if UCD and Cabinteely formed a co-op side in partnership with 2 or 3 big south side junior clubs. A platform they could use to represent the south side of Dublin, which despite the saturation of Dublin clubs remains underrepresented. That makes more sense to me than Cabinteely and UCD playing in front of no one.
No reason UCD couldn't maintain a FD side and their current U15,U17 and U19 sides and continue the great work they do bringing though quality players.
 
That kind of strategic thinking just isn't in the league and we`re set up for another scramble in the not too distant future when the next club goes to the wall and there`s a mad dash to see does any other Dublin junior club fancy a few years in the LOI.
I think the situation was different for at least three of the four clubs mentioned, they were just pop-up franchises that were doomed to failure from the beginning, Kilkenny being the only one mentioned that had grown organically and the only one that was a shame to see fold up.
I don't think UCD should be guaranteed any crowd but if they work at it they could get decent crowds. I know a lot of Cork City's hardcore fans down the years have been UCC students who enjoyed a trip to the Cross with no expectations, why couldn't they do the same with their own? Lots of people have an allegiance to their college side and I would be certain that they would have far bigger crowds at Collingwood Cup games than LOI fixtures. It just seems that because they don't really need the ticket money desperately that they are not bothered by it.
 I wasn't in favour of Cabinteely joining the league, I hate this idea of selecting a team from nowhere and the inevitable messy end  but some sort of link-up would probably work well for both teams alright.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Daragho Daragho wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Daragho Daragho wrote:

80 estimate at UCD? Jaysus, I'm surprised someone didn't go around and count them by hand.

I don't understand why Pats don't release official figures. They're available, because all tickets are scanned electronically.
Embarrassment?

They're hardly alone there, though. I know Pats crowds have been poor for some time but if you bury your head in the sand and pretend you don't have a problem then you're not going to fix it.
That could be the league's mantra though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanderer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:20pm
Much more than 650 at Bray. sounds like a made up figure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by wanderer wanderer wrote:

Much more than 650 at Bray. sounds like a made up figure

It was announced over the PA.  I thought it was 641 that was announced but maybe I misheard as someone has claimed 649.  I reckon we had the guts of 150 too of that.  

The board appear to have invested serious money in the current Bray squad.  Some of the claims on here re property plays etc just don't make sense.  They clearly are trying to build a successful squad.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the situation was different for at least three of the four clubs mentioned, they were just pop-up franchises that were doomed to failure from the beginning, Kilkenny being the only one mentioned that had grown organically and the only one that was a shame to see fold up.
I don't think UCD should be guaranteed any crowd but if they work at it they could get decent crowds. I know a lot of Cork City's hardcore fans down the years have been UCC students who enjoyed a trip to the Cross with no expectations, why couldn't they do the same with their own? Lots of people have an allegiance to their college side and I would be certain that they would have far bigger crowds at Collingwood Cup games than LOI fixtures. It just seems that because they don't really need the ticket money desperately that they are not bothered by it.
 I wasn't in favour of Cabinteely joining the league, I hate this idea of selecting a team from nowhere and the inevitable messy end  but some sort of link-up would probably work well for both teams alright.
In the absence of a pyramid structure every club in this league is a franchise club. If you actually go through the history of clubs in the league you`ll find they've dissolved and reformed on multiple occasions. It goes under the radar because years ago it used to be much more simple to dissolve a holding company than it is today. Some clubs have switched to entirely different areas to where they were originally based. Many clubs are simply claiming the trophies and history of clubs they have tentative connections with at best. In it`s near 100 year history the league hasn't made much inroads out of its geographical heartlands. That all sounds very like a franchise to me.
I think I`d disagree Kilkenny grew organically, they were parachuting in a lot of outsiders and very few of their players lived locally.
 
Listen I'm no expert on UCD`s marketing strategy. They`ve always struggled with crowds even when they were in the PD. Its a big ask to sell LOI football to students when they have the option of getting drunk and stoned.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by wanderer wanderer wrote:

Much more than 650 at Bray. sounds like a made up figure

It was announced over the PA.  I thought it was 641 that was announced but maybe I misheard as someone has claimed 649.  I reckon we had the guts of 150 too of that.  

The board appear to have invested serious money in the current Bray squad.  Some of the claims on here re property plays etc just don't make sense.  They clearly are trying to build a successful squad.  
The claims on here about property development are based in reality.
A few months back the owners released their strategic plan and moving out of the Carlisle Grounds/Bray Town was specifically mentioned and in some detail too.
Subsequently, the council had a meeting with the Bray owners and they pulled their necks back in but make no mistake about it, its a property grab.


Edited by Bitored - 27 Mar 2017 at 3:55pm
I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the situation was different for at least three of the four clubs mentioned, they were just pop-up franchises that were doomed to failure from the beginning, Kilkenny being the only one mentioned that had grown organically and the only one that was a shame to see fold up.
I don't think UCD should be guaranteed any crowd but if they work at it they could get decent crowds. I know a lot of Cork City's hardcore fans down the years have been UCC students who enjoyed a trip to the Cross with no expectations, why couldn't they do the same with their own? Lots of people have an allegiance to their college side and I would be certain that they would have far bigger crowds at Collingwood Cup games than LOI fixtures. It just seems that because they don't really need the ticket money desperately that they are not bothered by it.
 I wasn't in favour of Cabinteely joining the league, I hate this idea of selecting a team from nowhere and the inevitable messy end  but some sort of link-up would probably work well for both teams alright.
In the absence of a pyramid structure every club in this league is a franchise club. If you actually go through the history of clubs in the league you`ll find they've dissolved and reformed on multiple occasions. It goes under the radar because years ago it used to be much more simple to dissolve a holding company than it is today. Some clubs have switched to entirely different areas to where they were originally based. Many clubs are simply claiming the trophies and history of clubs they have tentative connections with at best. In it`s near 100 year history the league hasn't made much inroads out of its geographical heartlands. That all sounds very like a franchise to me.
I think I`d disagree Kilkenny grew organically, they were parachuting in a lot of outsiders and very few of their players lived locally.
 
Listen I'm no expert on UCD`s marketing strategy. They`ve always struggled with crowds even when they were in the PD. Its a big ask to sell LOI football to students when they have the option of getting drunk and stoned.
 
 
 
 
 
I agree with a lot of that, just  when I say Kilkenny grew organically I mean they were created as EMFA as a local club that grew stronger, unfortunately they were probably never managed right when they made LOI level but it was certainly a more natural way for a club to exist than Sporting Fingal or Dublin City.
I just don't thin UCD have a marketing strategy as they don't feel they need one. They are not reliant on getting people through the gate the way other clubs in the league are so they don't really bother. I could be a million miles off here, I am sure a UCD fan or student can tell me what they have done to increase crowds if I am wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

Not criticising the mug punters who turned up expecting a high standard,but the game itself,which was a huge let down.we had a chance to put a foot in the door of a major finals and bottled it.again.and i include meself in the mug category btw.

Fair enough, might have misread yer post. Probably not for this thread, but I don't really know why anyone would turn up to the aviva expecting us to play good football, it happened V Bosnia, and we were good in parts of the Germany & Poland games in the last campaign, but overall, we are not a good team to watch, especially at home, and we haven't been for years.

The Georgia home game was as poor as anything seen under Trap, but we got the result, the Scotland drawn home game of 2 years ago not much better, I've long given up on friendlies, even if you play well in those games, it tends to mean very little in the long run. We had a decent Euros on the back of another awful game V Belarus in Cork, just to give one example. 

Arsene Wenger said more than a decade ago that the standard of international football is declining, and I can't see how anyone could disagree with that. Euro SF's or not, Wales proved as average as we are, Scotland were lucky, England were workmanlike, Holland have fallen off a cliff and Blind got sacked, I didn't see too many other games but I doubt too many of them were riveting, it isn't just us. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 12:14pm
Week 7
Shams v Harps - 2510
Limerick V Cork - 2989
Bohemians V Pats - 2600
Derry V Bray - 1600
Dundalk V Drogheda - 3015
Galway V Sligo - 1172
 
 
 Longford V Waterford - 401
Shelbourne V Wexford - 465
Cobh V UCD - 200 (estimate)
Athlone V Cabinteely - 150 (estimate)
 
 


Edited by Bitored - 03 Apr 2017 at 9:03pm
I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 10:26pm
5275 is the figure I saw for Turners Cross tonight, hanging onto most of those that went to Dundalk.

1600 odd is the figure going around for Waterford's win against Cobh.

477 is the only other figure I have seen mentioned and that was for Bray Wanderers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 10:27pm
Absolutely brutal for us, completely unsustainable. A shame as great crowd there day one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Absolutely brutal for us, completely unsustainable. A shame as great crowd there day one.
Is that figure accurate then? I'm not sure how you could have the fourth highest budget and potentially the smallest gate receipts, something will give.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 10:46pm
Whoever the money men are in bray i doubt attendence figures came into it much in the planning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

5275 is the figure I saw for Turners Cross tonight, hanging onto most of those that went to Dundalk.

1600 odd is the figure going around for Waterford's win against Cobh.

477 is the only other figure I have seen mentioned and that was for Bray Wanderers.
They lost 1500 from the game against Dundalk, otherwise known as the average league attendance.
To be fair though they are too very good crowds back to back.
I won the Player of the Century award thanks to the people.Pele was second.He also came second behind Aryton Senna as Brazil's greatest sportsman.The award FIFA gave Pele isn't worth sh*t - Maradona
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Bitored Bitored wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

5275 is the figure I saw for Turners Cross tonight, hanging onto most of those that went to Dundalk.

1600 odd is the figure going around for Waterford's win against Cobh.

477 is the only other figure I have seen mentioned and that was for Bray Wanderers.
They lost 1500 from the game against Dundalk, otherwise known as the average league attendance.
To be fair though they are too very good crowds back to back.
The past few full hoses have been followed up with crowds of around 3000, unquestionably an improvement but was no doubt helped by the opposition and the form. If we can't get 5k plus now we will never get them!
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