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Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

I'm curious to see what Jim Crawford does should Okoflex show promise.

The forward options are a recovering-from-injury L1 Odubeko, the highly rated PL2 Ferguson and JJ Kayode, recently loaned to MK Dons but yet to really start his season (maybe add in Johnny Kenny also).
So all four are in the same boat in that none have done anything of note this season.

If the Israel match were tomorrow, I'd have Ferguson as the front-runner but it won't take much for any of them to stake a claim.

But the thing is, Okoflex did nothing in the last U21 camp, not even making benches, so you'd wonder what was up there and even if he were to look the best of the lot, I'd be shocked if he were to get near the team.

If he plays regularly for Swansea between now and then he should definitely be in the squad imo. I'm not sure what the issue is with Crawford (or indeed if there is one) and to be fair, Okoflex was only playing reserve team football back in October. 

Ebosele is another lad who should be starting for the U21s. Again I'm not sure whether its the player himself or Crawford who bears responsibility, but from the outside looking in, the omission of Ebosele and the subsequent call up to the senior squad was strange.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

I'm curious to see what Jim Crawford does should Okoflex show promise.

The forward options are a recovering-from-injury L1 Odubeko, the highly rated PL2 Ferguson and JJ Kayode, recently loaned to MK Dons but yet to really start his season (maybe add in Johnny Kenny also).
So all four are in the same boat in that none have done anything of note this season.

If the Israel match were tomorrow, I'd have Ferguson as the front-runner but it won't take much for any of them to stake a claim.

But the thing is, Okoflex did nothing in the last U21 camp, not even making benches, so you'd wonder what was up there and even if he were to look the best of the lot, I'd be shocked if he were to get near the team.

If he plays regularly for Swansea between now and then he should definitely be in the squad imo. I'm not sure what the issue is with Crawford (or indeed if there is one) and to be fair, Okoflex was only playing reserve team football back in October. 

Ebosele is another lad who should be starting for the U21s. Again I'm not sure whether its the player himself or Crawford who bears responsibility, but from the outside looking in, the omission of Ebosele and the subsequent call up to the senior squad was strange.

Also he is a winger rather than a striker, so he would be competing with the likes of Wright and Kerrigan for a spot rather than Kayode, Odubeko, Ferguson. Russell Martin when talking about the Okoflex signing said “He’s a wide player who really likes to get at people". so I'm guessing that's where he will play him.
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Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

I'm curious to see what Jim Crawford does should Okoflex show promise.

The forward options are a recovering-from-injury L1 Odubeko, the highly rated PL2 Ferguson and JJ Kayode, recently loaned to MK Dons but yet to really start his season (maybe add in Johnny Kenny also).
So all four are in the same boat in that none have done anything of note this season.

If the Israel match were tomorrow, I'd have Ferguson as the front-runner but it won't take much for any of them to stake a claim.

But the thing is, Okoflex did nothing in the last U21 camp, not even making benches, so you'd wonder what was up there and even if he were to look the best of the lot, I'd be shocked if he were to get near the team.

Funnily enough, it's exactly the type of loan Crawford seemed to be advising against last time Okoflex was called up to the 21's.

Anyway, he's a young attacker so I wouldn't worry too much if it's a tough year for him. As plenty of others have shown recently, challenging periods aren't exactly the end of the road for young players, in fact they're often the making of them.
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What I find curious about his, and even more so, Ebosele's, omission is that Crawford played a 4-5-1 in the last 2 games of the campaign with Wright and Kerrigan wide, yet didnt seem to have a wide player on the bench (I would see Devoy/Tierney/Noss, even Ollie O'Neill as #10's rather than wide players). Surely he has to at least make the bench for the Israel game if he is getting game time in the Championship. Has Tyreik Wright even got a move this summer, obviously Kerrigan seems to be doing well and is getting minutes off the bench for Como.

I have to confess I remain wholly unconvinced by Crawford despite his success in guiding us to a play off.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

I'm curious to see what Jim Crawford does should Okoflex show promise.

The forward options are a recovering-from-injury L1 Odubeko, the highly rated PL2 Ferguson and JJ Kayode, recently loaned to MK Dons but yet to really start his season (maybe add in Johnny Kenny also).
So all four are in the same boat in that none have done anything of note this season.

If the Israel match were tomorrow, I'd have Ferguson as the front-runner but it won't take much for any of them to stake a claim.

But the thing is, Okoflex did nothing in the last U21 camp, not even making benches, so you'd wonder what was up there and even if he were to look the best of the lot, I'd be shocked if he were to get near the team.

If he plays regularly for Swansea between now and then he should definitely be in the squad imo. I'm not sure what the issue is with Crawford (or indeed if there is one) and to be fair, Okoflex was only playing reserve team football back in October. 

Ebosele is another lad who should be starting for the U21s. Again I'm not sure whether its the player himself or Crawford who bears responsibility, but from the outside looking in, the omission of Ebosele and the subsequent call up to the senior squad was strange.

Also he is a winger rather than a striker, so he would be competing with the likes of Wright and Kerrigan for a spot rather than Kayode, Odubeko, Ferguson. Russell Martin when talking about the Okoflex signing said “He’s a wide player who really likes to get at people". so I'm guessing that's where he will play him.

The thing is though, Swansea don't play with wingers, they play 3-5-2. So he'll need to play wing back if he's not going to be up front.
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Swansea play 3-4-2-1 mostly. Last game they played 4-3-3.
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Not sure how it's Crawford's fault if players couldn't be arsed to turn up and/or think they're too good to play under-21 football.

There's absolutely no evidence out there that he has an abrasive personality with players or has done anything to ostracise them. And if they don't like his tactics, that's not an excuse to cry out of squads.

Meanwhile there's ample evidence that several players turned down call-ups for the reasons outlined. In fairness to one of them, he's proven he's good enough for senior International football, but the point still stands that Crawford doesn't deserve to be lumped in with a Don Givens.

As for the aspersions cast around his management ability, I thought his in-game management in several games, most notably Sweden, was superb.
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Not sure how it's Crawford's fault if players couldn't be arsed to turn up and/or think they're too good to play under-21 football.

There's absolutely no evidence out there that he has an abrasive personality with players or has done anything to ostracise them. And if they don't like his tactics, that's not an excuse to cry out of squads.

Meanwhile there's ample evidence that several players turned down call-ups for the reasons outlined. In fairness to one of them, he's proven he's good enough for senior International football, but the point still stands that Crawford doesn't deserve to be lumped in with a Don Givens.

As for the aspersions cast around his management ability, I thought his in-game management in several games, most notably Sweden, was superb.

You've spun out this trope before. Okoflex did turn up for Under 21 duty. It amazes me that you think you can continue to just lie with impunity and not get called up on it. Maybe you just can't help it when it comes to a player like Okoflex.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Not sure how it's Crawford's fault if players couldn't be arsed to turn up and/or think they're too good to play under-21 football.

There's absolutely no evidence out there that he has an abrasive personality with players or has done anything to ostracise them. And if they don't like his tactics, that's not an excuse to cry out of squads.

Meanwhile there's ample evidence that several players turned down call-ups for the reasons outlined. In fairness to one of them, he's proven he's good enough for senior International football, but the point still stands that Crawford doesn't deserve to be lumped in with a Don Givens.

As for the aspersions cast around his management ability, I thought his in-game management in several games, most notably Sweden, was superb.

You've spun out this trope before. Okoflex did turn up for Under 21 duty. It amazes me that you think you can continue to just lie with impunity and not get called up on it. Maybe you just can't help it when it comes to a player like Okoflex.
The same Okoflex who has played for England. Anyways, I was referring primarily to Connolly, Ebosele, Obafemi and Odubeko. And my post was in reference to several posts on this thread implying some wrongdoing on Crawford's part in interacting with players. I just wanted to dispel that.
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Not sure how it's Crawford's fault if players couldn't be arsed to turn up and/or think they're too good to play under-21 football.

There's absolutely no evidence out there that he has an abrasive personality with players or has done anything to ostracise them. And if they don't like his tactics, that's not an excuse to cry out of squads.

Meanwhile there's ample evidence that several players turned down call-ups for the reasons outlined. In fairness to one of them, he's proven he's good enough for senior International football, but the point still stands that Crawford doesn't deserve to be lumped in with a Don Givens.

As for the aspersions cast around his management ability, I thought his in-game management in several games, most notably Sweden, was superb.

You've spun out this trope before. Okoflex did turn up for Under 21 duty. It amazes me that you think you can continue to just lie with impunity and not get called up on it. Maybe you just can't help it when it comes to a player like Okoflex.
The same Okoflex who has played for England. Anyways, I was referring primarily to Connolly, Ebosele, Obafemi and Odubeko. And my post was in reference to several posts on this thread implying some wrongdoing on Crawford's part in interacting with players. I just wanted to dispel that.


Connolly has never withdrawn from an Under 21 squad under Crawford either. You know that of course, but you had your reasons for wanting to add him to that list of names.
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Not sure how it's Crawford's fault if players couldn't be arsed to turn up and/or think they're too good to play under-21 football.

There's absolutely no evidence out there that he has an abrasive personality with players or has done anything to ostracise them. And if they don't like his tactics, that's not an excuse to cry out of squads.

Meanwhile there's ample evidence that several players turned down call-ups for the reasons outlined. In fairness to one of them, he's proven he's good enough for senior International football, but the point still stands that Crawford doesn't deserve to be lumped in with a Don Givens.

As for the aspersions cast around his management ability, I thought his in-game management in several games, most notably Sweden, was superb.

You've spun out this trope before. Okoflex did turn up for Under 21 duty. It amazes me that you think you can continue to just lie with impunity and not get called up on it. Maybe you just can't help it when it comes to a player like Okoflex.
The same Okoflex who has played for England. Anyways, I was referring primarily to Connolly, Ebosele, Obafemi and Odubeko. And my post was in reference to several posts on this thread implying some wrongdoing on Crawford's part in interacting with players. I just wanted to dispel that.


Connolly has never withdrawn from an Under 21 squad under Crawford either. You know that of course, but you had your reasons for wanting to add him to that list of names.

You've spent the last thirty minutes looking that up I suppose. Pretty sure I read he didn't want to drop into the under-21s. You wrongly assumed I was talking about Okoflex in your latest bout of paranoia and now you're on to another victim. Suppose you'll be accusing me of being racist against people from Galway now. 


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 30 Aug 2022 at 7:52pm
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From the BBC - didn't quite realise that - they're some figures Hug:

"Oko-Flex scored 18 goals in 29 appearances for West Ham's under-23 side in 2021-22, and was involved in David Moyes' senior squad on 13 occasions last season without making an appearance."
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Swansea sounds like too much too soon for Okoflex. I watched him a couple of times for West Ham in pre-season and he was miles off. One game he came on for 30 mins and gave the ball away every time he touched it (Coventry in the same game looked very comfortable & at home).

Could be an intentional "character building loan" that isn't supposed to work out.

Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Interesting that Okoflex gets a first loan to the Championship, whereas Odubeko has suffered his first loan in L1 and goes back there again.You'd expect Odubeko to be more prepared for men's football but WH don't agree and they would know more.

I can't see Okoflex getting much joy from this loan, if I'm honest.  Not helped by the fact that Swansea are struggling.


TBF, Odubeko was sent to Huddersfield the first half of last season and they were pushing for Play-Off spots. He wasn't ready for it and then was sent to Doncaster in L1 for the second half of the season. Very much mirrored Parrotts first season, sent to Play-Off pushing Millwall, recalled & sent to Ipswich instead.
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I'd completely forgotten that Odubeko went to Huddersfield before Doncaster actually, I'd say maybe Fozz was the same.

The recent record of Irish players going on first loans to the Championship isn't great - Parrott, Odubeko, Adaramola if today's rumour is true. Even Conor Coventry last season at Peterborough - and that was actually his second loan after he had a short stint at Lincoln before the Covid outbreak. Similar with the Irish based lads moving to that level recently - James Brown and Danny Grant for instance. It's becoming a tougher league to break through into.

The only recent successful first loan there I can think of is Jayson Molumby to Millwall, that was actually a really impressive year from him looking back at it now.

So yes, Oko-flex is going to have to be good to survive beyond January at that level.
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Was subbed on at half time tonight. Currently 2-2, and Manning still missing with injury.

Edited by J89 - 18 Oct 2022 at 9:22pm
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Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Was subbed on at half time tonight. Currently 2-2, and Manning still missing with injury.
subbed on only to be subbed off Confused
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They were 2 - 1 down when he came on and 3-2 up when he came off, more than likely tactical and supposedly played well.
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Was worried that he'd had an absolute shocker when I saw that, but apparently he was fine, they just threw an extra defender on late to defend their lead.
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