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Are there any potential expansion teams?

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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cildaratown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

Thanks for the response. Shame about the team, here’s to hoping Newbridge Town can kick on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David McWilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

My mate is from Newbridge and used to go around then and apparently there was a bit of a singing section behind one of the goals and said it was a bit of craic.

Were Kildare County just formed one day and decided to be entered in to the LOI, similar to Sporting Fingal?

I really think any new team should be made enter a 13s, then a 15s, then a 17s, then a 19s and then a senior team. At least that way you build up support in the area and it has the best locals playing for it even. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.

My mate is from Newbridge and used to go around then and apparently there was a bit of a singing section behind one of the goals and said it was a bit of craic.

Were Kildare County just formed one day and decided to be entered in to the LOI, similar to Sporting Fingal?

I really think any new team should be made enter a 13s, then a 15s, then a 17s, then a 19s and then a senior team. At least that way you build up support in the area and it has the best locals playing for it even. 


Yes there was a bit of a group that came along to matches and attempted to get a bit of an atmosphere going, chances are I know your friend! As far as I know Newbridge Town were approached to enter the league but they decided it would be best to set up a new club to represent the entire county rather than just Newbridge. Also I suspect Newbridge did not want to take the financial risk as they were a relatively successful LSL team at the time.

Yes I think the underage teams will be good for that reason as well as bringing players through, however the cost of running those teams is even more likely to put a new team off entering the LoI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corkery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 9:04pm
The provlem any new club is the stadium. Take Wexford for example, it's never going to work because they play in the middle of nowhere. You need somewhere that people can walk to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garretjoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 8:25am
would the FAI block a team from calling themselves say Munster FC? Or Ulster FC... Club sets up shop somewhere in Munster/Ulster and potentially could gain a large following.,,, 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 9:07am
I'd say if you had the means and wanted to set up a team called the Renford Rejects I doubt the FAI would give two sh*ts and would give you a licence.

But whose gonna support Munster fc and where exactly would you base them?
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LOL Munster FC! That's f**king brilliant!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:45am
In the Irish Sun today that the FAI are considering introducing a new third tier for the 2020 season which could be made up of intermediate clubs or B teams in an attempt to bridge the gap between senior and u.19s LoI. Didn't exactly work out for them the last time with the A Championship. Would love to see it if it was done properly but can't see clubs queuing up to join unless there is a major incentive.. Just look at Wexford and Athlone in the first division. I wonder what clubs if any, would be interested in joining?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:52am
Originally posted by CillDara CillDara wrote:

In the Irish Sun today that the FAI are considering introducing a new third tier for the 2020 season which could be made up of intermediate clubs or B teams in an attempt to bridge the gap between senior and u.19s LoI. Didn't exactly work out for them the last time with the A Championship. Would love to see it if it was done properly but can't see clubs queuing up to join unless there is a major incentive.. Just look at Wexford and Athlone in the first division. I wonder what clubs if any, would be interested in joining?

I think this is a great idea and the A Championship should never have been disbanded. A lot of clubs will be interested this time around I think because of access to the national underage leagues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adineen98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:58am
I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:05am
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.

In the A Championship B teams were mandatory for Premier teams and opt-in for First Div. This lead to teams fielding B teams that didn't want to and voting the division out in the end, losing a few potential expansion teams in the process. If the B teams were entirely opt-in then everybody should be happy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:27am
If it works out then yes it would be a great idea but are some of the top intermediate clubs going to risk everything by jumping from the top LSL division to go and join this new league that may or may not work out? The B teams should definitely be optional. I would imagine the likes of Monaghan/Cavan, Mayo, Kerry & Kilkenny/Carlow will be expected to join as they have sides in the underage leagues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UCDFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:31am
UCD AFC would definitely want a slice of that because we are a Football Club with Football Players. Regarding the A Championship, UCD are the most successful club winning it, losing the last one up at the old The Brandywell.

League of Ireland clubs despise integrated competitions tho', they hate them.
eg 1. LFA Leinster Senior Cup, first final 1892. LoI legend Jason Byrne intrinsically linked to the competition. But low, painful whining when the fixtures come around leading to procrastination of staging the rounds.

Eg 2 The FAI Senior Cup, first final in 1922, allowed to be described as "the oldest football competition in Ireland".
http://www.fai.ie/domestic/competitions/irish-daily-mail-fai-senior-cup . Ignoring Universities and Provincial competitions in IRL.
Exclusion of UCD Leinster Senior League side when eligible with on-the- field achievements.


Edited by UCDFAN - 21 Aug 2018 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:47am
Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.

Think it will be more the winners of the play off will play off against the bottom first Divison club. Don't think they'll have direct promotion from the league incase you end up with someone like a B team from one of the premier teams or the likes of Kerry and Monaghan/Cavan win the league. Might even be someone like UCC if they win or UCD LSL team they might be able to afford the affiliation fees and higher match fees along with the added travel. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:59pm
The incredibly high entrance fees should be used to help any promoted team bed in. Also, no team should be allowed entrance to this new division without an interest in accepting promotion.
A pyramid system is vital for Irish football, it must be implemented.
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