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Are there any potential expansion teams?

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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:00am
Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .
One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:55am
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .
 
Cork has the population to sustain 2 clubs (400,000 in the Cork Metro Area) if their was a will.
Cork could sustain 2 clubs on 3,000 per home game but that is dependant on both of them being at the top end of the table. As it is the majority of CC fans are from the South side of the city (got this from a CC fan on here).
 
Dundalk averages around 2,500 per game which is around 7/8% of the towns population, admittedly they have fans scattered around the north Louth/south Amagh/Down region.
 
Belfast has 4 clubs in a city where a large % of the population would have in inherent dislike of IL football.
 
It's not going to happen anytime soon tho......


Edited by Cabra Hoop - 05 Jul 2018 at 12:11pm
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twoinarow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!


Edited by Twoinarow - 05 Jul 2018 at 12:23pm
2 in a row and we won it in Tallaght
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adineen98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twoinarow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...

LOLLOLMore clubs than Tiger Woods down there ffs
2 in a row and we won it in Tallaght
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adineen98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by Twoinarow Twoinarow wrote:

Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Cork cant sustain 2 teams absolute madness .

Cork City account for almost 1 in every 5 LOI fans across both divisions. I don't want to see a third team in Cork but it's certainly not madness given some of the other locations being mentioned. 

Hopefully any potential start-ups agree with you though. 

Cork cant even keep 1 club alive without going bust every so often never mind 2 teams!

I know yeah, sure City have only been existence for the last 34 years...

LOLLOLMore clubs than Tiger Woods down there ffs

Are you actually going to contribute to the discussion or are you just going to sit at your desktop roaring laughing at your oh-so original jokes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevincronin2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 2:23pm
I'd imagine if cork city's and Cobh ramblers home league games clash Cobh would notice a significant drop in attendances for Cobh. Recently our home game v Derry clashed with Cobhs game v Galway and as far as I can remember Cobh changed their ko time to allow fans attend both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PanteirA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thebronze14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2018 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

What about Killarney Celtic ?? I hear they are a bit of a big deal !!
I do believe that they are Kerry's Number 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:15am
Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David McWilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

One of the reasons I'm against a proper pyramid structure is because it greatly reduces the size of the teams that can get promoted. 

Suppose we go for a pyramid system and Killarney Celtic and Westport United get promoted.
Killarney won't get support from the wider Kerry area. Someone from Tralee won't support Killarney Celtic. Similarly, someone in Castlebar or Ballina won't get behind a Westport team. Let's say Westport get 1% of population of Westport at their games. That's 60 people. Suppose Mayo FC can get 1% of the county to go that's 1,300. 

Similar let's look at Killarney. Killarney has a population of 14,000, Kerry has a population of 140,000. So I think going for the wider team name opens up potential for much more support. I think Bray should explore the option of Renaming themselves Wicklow Wanderers.

Are Crumlin, Tralee Dynamos or Tullamore Town going to add any more to the first division than Athlone, Cobh or Cabo? Or should we look at building county-wide entities that at least have the potential to be reasonably well supported? I think the latter.

If Bohs we called Phibsboro or Pat's called Inchicore they'd both be in the LSL. At least here we can try get a few thousand through the gates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PanteirA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.
The cost of travel over the course of a season is a big issue so something more regionalized is preferred but id think it would have to lead into a division , be it 1st or 2nd that teams want to be in for financial rewards. It does all come down to money as an incentive if you want to expand LOI football , which is quiet damming if you look at the state of some of the clubs there. If you are a stable and successful junior / intermediate club there is little appetite to be in the graveyard of the current system
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

They're looking into setting up a new company to run the league, could be a combination of the club's and FAI coming togethe under a new banner to run it but hopefully that leads to people coming in and getting proper tv money for clubs and increasing prize money but any increase in money given to the club's needs to closely watched in that its not all blown in players but used instead to upgrade facilites first and foremost.

Unfortunately I think the first Divison will always be looked at as the redheaded step child that nobody wants, think they should look at regionalising it like in England once you drop out of the football league. The National League which is the top level of non league in England and below that you have National League North and South, think that's the best way to go especially with the cost of travel.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PanteirA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by PanteirA PanteirA wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The only "possibly" viable new team would be a team on the north side of Cork City although it would mean diluting Cork City FCs current support base somewhat, it would create a good local rivalry. But for the foreseeable future I cannot see it being a runner.

Where would they get money? Who'd support them? Any business that has money will be given it to Cork City and why would anyone whose supported a club all their life suddenly decide to follow a new club. There's no viable expansions in this country unless money is pumped into the league, can barely keep the clubs that are already there a float never mind bringing in more teams to a basket case of a league. 
Spot on. Sometime in the future if prize money for a club entering the league outweighed the costs of participating in the LOI, then clubs who have ambition will apply to enter. Club facilities , support base , location , income and all that should be strictly managed by the FAI and it should be made clear whats expected of clubs who wish to enter.
 
Then hopefully a league which supports the 1st division will be proposed in which relegation and promotion to 1st division will apply. By this stage every Junior and Intermediate club will want to get on the ladder of progression to the LOI. All this wont happen under the current FAI and if the LOI was a more attractive place for clubs to join it would be over a long period of time before thing pan out like id imagine

One of the reasons I'm against a proper pyramid structure is because it greatly reduces the size of the teams that can get promoted. 

Suppose we go for a pyramid system and Killarney Celtic and Westport United get promoted.
Killarney won't get support from the wider Kerry area. Someone from Tralee won't support Killarney Celtic. Similarly, someone in Castlebar or Ballina won't get behind a Westport team. Let's say Westport get 1% of population of Westport at their games. That's 60 people. Suppose Mayo FC can get 1% of the county to go that's 1,300. 

Similar let's look at Killarney. Killarney has a population of 14,000, Kerry has a population of 140,000. So I think going for the wider team name opens up potential for much more support. I think Bray should explore the option of Renaming themselves Wicklow Wanderers.

Are Crumlin, Tralee Dynamos or Tullamore Town going to add any more to the first division than Athlone, Cobh or Cabo? Or should we look at building county-wide entities that at least have the potential to be reasonably well supported? I think the latter.

If Bohs we called Phibsboro or Pat's called Inchicore they'd both be in the LSL. At least here we can try get a few thousand through the gates
I know what you mean but there has being a few county team failures and id give a Killarney team ( especially if the 2 biggest Killarney teams united for a LOI team) a much better chance for long term sustainability. After all they have 70 odd years of rivalry between them as opposed to a newly formed Kerry senior team. A Killarney team would get support from outside Killarney and pull more supporters than a Tralee based Kerry team .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 11:08pm
A combined Carlow/Kilkenny team would definitely be a visible option especially when you factor in there is a ready made stadium in Buckey Park.

There is a lot of talent in the south-east, both counties contested the Oscar Traynor Final only last month too.

The fact Carlow/Kilkenny have an under 15 side in the LOI has the potential to lead to bigger things as "a club" if there is proper long term planning put in place to eventually try and put a side together to enter the first division.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

A combined Carlow/Kilkenny team would definitely be a visible option especially when you factor in there is a ready made stadium in Buckey Park.

There is a lot of talent in the south-east, both counties contested the Oscar Traynor Final only last month too.

The fact Carlow/Kilkenny have an under 15 side in the LOI has the potential to lead to bigger things as "a club" if there is proper long term planning put in place to eventually try and put a side together to enter the first division.

Buckley Park is in a terrible location, one the reasons they had no support as it must be good 60min if not more walk outside the town. Carlow themselves could possibly get a team together using the local IT who have a good college team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by cildaratown cildaratown wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Originally posted by David McWilliams David McWilliams wrote:

Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

Carlow/Kilkenny, Kerry, Mayo and Monaghan/Cavan all have teams in the underage divisions of the LOI, so it's possible they have ambitions to have a team in the LOI in the near future.

Carlow, linked to the IT, and Kilkenny, who actually play in Kilkenny City, could nearly have their own teams. Then the other 3 would be welcome additions. I would hope the teams who have underage structures would have the ambition to eventually join the league with a senior team. 

Hard to look beyond that at the minute. Whatever it was that got Mayo and Kerry etc in to the underage leagues it would be great if they gave that chance to a few more teams, also with a view of join in the future. Maybe with a Finga team, a Laois team, a Tipp team and a Clare team. Nobody is saying these will get 20,000 through the gates but maybe they'll be viable entities and maybe they'll be able to develop youngsters in the area who want to go down the football route and they'll get a thousand or two through the gate.

What ever happened to the teams that were in the A championship? Tullamore and Mullingar and Carlow? Surely it was their intention to step up? The A league was the right idea, possibly disbanded too soon.

The idea of a team representing an entire county is a great one in theory, particularly where football isn't strong, but it can also be a complete failure, a la Kildare County.

Most of the sides that competed in the A Championship have either gone back to their intermediate or junior leagues (aside from Mervue Utd and Satlhill Devon, who themselves went back to junior football after a spell in the LOI). I think Carlow were the only side to disband after the A Championship was abandoned; I think they had an application to join the LOI in 2012 rejected, along with Tralee Dynamos and Cobh Ramblers. We probably won't be seeing Tralee in the LOI anytime soon however; I've read that they've put a stop to their own LOI ambitions after the KDL joined the U17 league.

Having said all that however, it would be much more beneficial for Irish football (in my opinion, anyway) if a pyramid structure was implemented.

I know Kildare County failed, but do you know what caused their demise? 

Apologies, I wasn't directly targeting Kildare County, I was just using them as an example. Maybe "complete failure" was too harsh. 

To be honest with you, I dont know why they failed. Given that they were formed by members of Newbridge Town, I'm assuming it was internal politics was the biggest factor which led Kildare County's demise? 

That could make sense. No worries - wasn’t a fan at the time and was curious where they went. 

Only seeing these posts now, but it was financial reasons they went bust. The club started off relatively well in 2002 and for their first 3 seasons or so they were competitive at the top half of the first division season and getting decent crowds of 500/600. In 2004 3 teams were getting promoted automatically and apparantly we budgeted for promotion that season only to miss out in the last game of the season and this left the club in financial trouble.

The team nose dived after this and crowds plummeted, managed to stick around until 2009 but for the last year or two it was really grim with some tiny crowds at Station Road and some regular hammerings. In the end it went very sour with the manager and board throwing in thw towel before the last game of the season and the supporters had to organise the team and they had to wear a newbridge town underage kit.

I was only young enough at the time but it was a real eye opener as to how difficult it is to run a club in the LoI especially the first division. For a county of 250,000 people we really struggled to get people in the gate, a lot of good work went on behind the scenes but the finances invloved in running a LoI club are huge with very little reward. Unless the FAI make some serious changes I can't see how it would be appealing for now clubs to join, even some of the Premier Clubs are struggling now.

Would love to see LoI football return to Kildare one day but the only way I could see it happening is if Newbridge Town themselves ever decide to take a stab at it.
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