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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 9:40am
Kenen Yildiz, made his senior debut for Turkey over the weekend, scoring against Germany.

He scored a peno against us in the 3-2 U21 win at Turners Cross, but generally had a quiet game I thought. (Quieter than Moran anyway).

Who would of thought that getting your under-21 players into the senior squad and integrating them with better players might yield results the odd time?



Edited by Maccatacca - 20 Nov 2023 at 9:46am
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Kenen Yildiz, made his senior debut for Turkey over the weekend, scoring against Germany.

He scored a peno against us in the 3-2 U21 win at Turners Cross, but generally had a quiet game I thought. (Quieter than Moran anyway).

Who would of thought that getting your under-21 players into the senior squad and integrating them with better players might yield results the odd time?

Turkey's U21s didn't have a qualifier last week, and they play Norway tomorrow. Wonder if he'll be in the squad?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 11:43am
Yildiz didn't miss a 21s game but more importantly he's is highly rated, 18 and German born and raised. 

Turkey capping him at senior level is much more important than "integrating him" with the senior squad. They want him happy and cap-tied. None of that applies to Moran. 

Also Turkey are top of their group and qualified with the Euros to keep an eye on for bringing talent in. We have two worthless games with a lame duck manager who won't ever manage Moran again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 11:59am
But if it was just about qualifying for the u21s then we would have all our young guys there who still qualify.

If you ask Moran where he would rather be then we know the answer.

Think it would be different if it was the very end of the u21 campaign and it was a win to qualify match, then you could make the argument that a player who played the whole campaign should stay there especially as two worthless senior games. But it’s still early in the campaign for the u21, Moran likely won’t be with them again


Edited by t_rAndy - 20 Nov 2023 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

But if it was just about qualifying for the u21s then we would have all our young guys there who still qualify.

If you ask Moran where he would rather be then we know the answer.

Think it would be different if it was the very end of the u21 campaign and it was a win to qualify match, then you could make the argument that a player who played the whole campaign should stay there especially as two worthless senior games. But it’s still early in the campaign for the u21, Moran likely won’t be with them again

Exactly, Ferguson, Omobamidele, and all the rest of them should also have been with the U-21's if the argument is that their qualification is more important than senior games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:37pm
Omobamidele and Parrott should have been with the U21s IMO. Omobamidele hasn't kicked a ball in months, a run out for the U21s would have done him well. 

 Ferguson and Bazunu are undisputed starters, there's no argument there and it's a different story. 

Moran didn't play, that's the point of all this. He was pulled from the 21 squad and didn't even kick a ball. I don't get this snobbery of once you get a call-up to the seniors then you don't go back down. All the best teams send players back regularly enough if the scenario warrants it, we should be no different. You want scenarios like when Armstrong came on against the Dutch, then travelled to Cork and started for the 21s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 3:17pm
The way it played out, I’d have also have liked Moran to have stayed with the U21s. But if you are needed by the senior team then that trumps everything. 

I do agree that some players could go back down if they are currently not needed for the senior team. Like Connolly did which I thought was good attitude. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

Omobamidele and Parrott should have been with the U21s IMO. Omobamidele hasn't kicked a ball in months, a run out for the U21s would have done him well. 

 Ferguson and Bazunu are undisputed starters, there's no argument there and it's a different story. 

Moran didn't play, that's the point of all this. He was pulled from the 21 squad and didn't even kick a ball. I don't get this snobbery of once you get a call-up to the seniors then you don't go back down. All the best teams send players back regularly enough if the scenario warrants it, we should be no different. You want scenarios like when Armstrong came on against the Dutch, then travelled to Cork and started for the 21s.

It's exactly the same story - if the U-21's game was deemed to be of greater importance than the senior teams, the the strongest possible side should have been selected for it. Either U-21 qualification is more important than selection for the senior team, or it isn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 3:54pm
No it's not the same story. There's nuance to any decision. Senior team takes priority, however if a player is being pulled into a meaningless game where's he almost certain not to play, then a crucual U21 game could take precedence. 

If Bazunu was our #2 or #3 keeper then I'd be saying the same thing in sending him down. If Moran was going straight into the team for the Dutch game then it'd be another story.



Edited by Pinginí - 20 Nov 2023 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

No it's not the same story. There's nuance to any decision. Senior team takes priority, however if a player is being pulled into a meaningless game where's he almost certain not to play, then a crucual U21 game could take precedence. 

If Bazunu was our #2 or #3 keeper then I'd be saying the same thing in sending him down. If Moran was going straight into the team for the Dutch game then it'd be another story.


It's startlingly simple - either you're consistent in your logic or you aren't. 

I'd argue that if a player js good enough and needed (Moran ticks both those boxes) then they should always be picked for the senior side above an underage side. Your argument is that this underage game was more important than the senior game, but it was only wrong to select one player in particular for the seniors even though there were others picked who could have been even bigger assets to the U-21's. Your reasoning is inconsistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

No it's not the same story. There's nuance to any decision. Senior team takes priority, however if a player is being pulled into a meaningless game where's he almost certain not to play, then a crucual U21 game could take precedence. 

If Bazunu was our #2 or #3 keeper then I'd be saying the same thing in sending him down. If Moran was going straight into the team for the Dutch game then it'd be another story.


It's startlingly simple - either you're consistent in your logic or you aren't. 

I'd argue that if a player js good enough and needed (Moran ticks both those boxes) then they should always be picked for the senior side above an underage side. Your argument is that this underage game was more important than the senior game, but it was only wrong to select one player in particular for the seniors even though there were others picked who could have been even bigger assets to the U-21's. Your reasoning is inconsistent.
You can't say that Moran ticks the box of being needed when he didn't get on the pitch. If he was needed, he'd have played. His logic is fairly reasonable imo, players like Bazunu and Ferguson are two of the first names on the senior team sheet, obviously they aren't candidates to be dropped down to the u21s outside of a major tournament or perhaps a playoff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Pinginí Pinginí wrote:

No it's not the same story. There's nuance to any decision. Senior team takes priority, however if a player is being pulled into a meaningless game where's he almost certain not to play, then a crucual U21 game could take precedence. 

If Bazunu was our #2 or #3 keeper then I'd be saying the same thing in sending him down. If Moran was going straight into the team for the Dutch game then it'd be another story.


It's startlingly simple - either you're consistent in your logic or you aren't. 

I'd argue that if a player js good enough and needed (Moran ticks both those boxes) then they should always be picked for the senior side above an underage side. Your argument is that this underage game was more important than the senior game, but it was only wrong to select one player in particular for the seniors even though there were others picked who could have been even bigger assets to the U-21's. Your reasoning is inconsistent.
You can't say that Moran ticks the box of being needed when he didn't get on the pitch. If he was needed, he'd have played. His logic is fairly reasonable imo, players like Bazunu and Ferguson are two of the first names on the senior team sheet, obviously they aren't candidates to be dropped down to the u21s outside of a major tournament or perhaps a playoff.

He was needed because he's the most creative attacking mid we have, him not being used is another issue.

Look, if you're going down the Hamann root of saying the U-21 game should take precedence over the senior game, then at least be consistent in that. The lack of consistency pretty much shows it up for what it is - just another stick to try and beat the manager with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinginí Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 6:00pm
How can you not get that it's not simple as which one is more important? Not every player's situation is the same. 

The end result of Moran's week is he missed a crucial U21 game that we lost and played 0 minutes for the senior team. That is not an ideal use of the resources we have in our team. 

Our next opponents Italy send players back regularly for big games and have 13 cap Wilfried Gnonto in the squad to play against us tomorrow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoxerDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 3:31pm
Another assist for Andy today. Corner which was headed home at the near post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2023 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by JoxerDaly JoxerDaly wrote:

Another assist for Andy today. Corner which was headed home at the near post.


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Goalllll! Clap

Edited by SC92 - 25 Nov 2023 at 4:54pm
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In the midnight hour she cried Merann Merann Merann!
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Assist tonight 
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