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4th Tier England better for young Irish players?

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MC Hammered View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 9:40am

St Kevins Boys advocating sending young lads to the UK instead of the LOI. Probably not surprising given that the new underage LOI structure doesn't suit them. 

What's the thoughts lads? What sort of € do SKB's get if their players make it in England? 

"We were heavily criticised because four Irish lads went to a club like Stevenage instead of staying here to play in the League of Ireland. But, to me, there was no club in this country that could offer them full-time football," says Alan Caffrey, coach at St Kevin's Boys, the quartet's alma mater.

"So it came to them taking a risk for two years and trying it, as they can always come home and play League of Ireland. And it was worth the risk."


http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/fourth-tier-comes-first-for-kevins-35650746.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Cousins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 10:55am
10 grand per year the player was with them I think.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:00am
Its all about money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:11am

I can understand our absolute top level players going away to get the best football education on offer. Robbie Brady to Manchester United for example. But surely the point of the LOI underage set up is to keep the majority of kids at home where they can do the leaving cert and develop within Irish football. Is farming lads out to the likes of Stevenage not more of the same throwing sh*t against the wall and seeing what sticks philosophy that we have had in this country for decades rather than what might benefit the players in question? 
Is the u15's/17's/19's LOI set up destined to fail if League Two teams are even able to hoover up young talent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RKBarmyArmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:12am
St. Kevins Boys have been involved in the child trafficking business for a long long time, that will never change. Ringmahon are going same way here in Cork. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:14am
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

St Kevins Boys advocating sending young lads to the UK instead of the LOI. Probably not surprising given that the new underage LOI structure doesn't suit them
This.
 
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KOH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:18am

What a daft thing to say "if it doesn't work out for them they can come back to LOI"

Looks like Kevins are really concerned about the kids who don't make it....come back to Ireland with no leaving cert no college option and hope you get picked up by one of the LOI clubs..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

St Kevins Boys advocating sending young lads to the UK instead of the LOI. Probably not surprising given that the new underage LOI structure doesn't suit them
This.
 
 

How is this going to play out lads? I know efforts are being made to incorporate schoolboy clubs into the LOI set up. (Crumlin and Belvo have linked up with Pats, Joeys with Bray etc.) Can power be wrested away from the big schoolboy clubs or are the likes of SKB's going to continue to be obstructive with impunity?
 
Is another answer to allow certain schoolboy clubs access to the underage LOI league set up or is that just creating another version of the DDSL prem?


Edited by MC Hammered - 25 Apr 2017 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:45am
I have a feeling that they will let certain DDSL clubs compete in the LOI u13s but no higher.
 
What happens to the Kennedy Cup ?
 
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KOH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:48am
Once the under 15's start that means the best players should gravitate to the LoI clubs at an age (13,14) that means they can't go to England yet.
I would hate to see them get access to the underage National leagues as they will still have no loyalty to the league (less important) and no shame at sending kids to England knowing that many of them will end up on the scrap heap of life with no qualifications and no future.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 11:59am
Completely ridiculous statement that neglects the fact that these lads usually go over with no education and minuscule chance of "making it". Fellas can usually play at LOI level while getting their leaving cert and even free third level with some clubs. Selling lads to Stevenage at 16 just shows that these clubs care more about money then the kids. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Cousins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

(Crumlin and Belvo have linked up with Pats, Joeys with Bray etc.)


I'd love to know the terms of these arrangements.

Basically, if a kid goes from a junior club like Crumlin to the UK (Uefa category 4), there's around 10 K* a year i think owed in UEFA solidarity payments.

If the same player went from a league of ireland club like Pats (uefa category 2), the compo is in the region of 60 k a year*.

What happens with the compo, when Crumlin link up with pats. Does it then all count as if the player is at a UEFA Category 2 club? If so, then who gets the money the League of Ireland club or the junior club, or is it split?

*not sure if these figues are spot on but from memory it's in that ball park.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Tony Cousins Tony Cousins wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

(Crumlin and Belvo have linked up with Pats, Joeys with Bray etc.)


I'd love to know the terms of these arrangements.

Basically, if a kid goes from a junior club like Crumlin to the UK (Uefa category 4), there's around 10 K* a year i think owed in UEFA solidarity payments.

If the same player went from a league of ireland club like Pats (uefa category 2), the compo is in the region of 60 k a year*.

What happens with the compo, when Crumlin link up with pats. Does it then all count as if the player is at a UEFA Category 2 club? If so, then who gets the money the League of Ireland club or the junior club, or is it split?

*not sure if these figues are spot on but from memory it's in that ball park.

Firstly, I have no idea what the answer is! However, if we assume the above sums are correct then the obvious answer that suits everyone is for the LOI club to claim the higher level of compo (€60k) and give the underage club a split on the quiet (say €15k/20k) and everyone is a winner. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 3:36pm
Question: The money that the likes of SKB and Crumlin etc...where is this money going?

I'm led to believe 'a lot' of this money is ahem resting in the account of certain club members.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Question: The money that the likes of SKB and Crumlin etc...where is this money going?

I'm led to believe 'a lot' of this money is ahem resting in the account of certain club members.

I've also heard unconfirmed reports that a few board members/chairmen of the bigger schoolboy clubs rake in considerable salaries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I've also heard unconfirmed reports that a few board members/chairmen of the bigger schoolboy clubs rake in considerable salaries.
Fact.
 
It's nearly a full-time job running a club that size.
 
I spend at elast 20 hours a week at my club for 5 free pints at Christmas.
 
Also why are ex-LOI players taking up coaching jobs at these clubs ?
They're not doing it for free.
 
I was offered 10k (expenses Wink) a year to run an Academy (part-time) only last month.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 4:16pm
I don't think it's a secret that the bigger clubs pay some coaches/ managers/ officials at both schoolboy and senior level. 

I really like the idea of the underage LOI structure that is being implemented but it can only be a success if;

1) Whats on offer by the LOI clubs to the kids is better than whats offered by the schoolboy clubs
2) The majority of the elite players are fed into the LOI set up. 




Edited by MC Hammered - 25 Apr 2017 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


St Kevins Boys advocating sending young lads to the UK instead of the LOI. Probably not surprising given that the new underage LOI structure doesn't suit them. 

What's the thoughts lads? What sort of € do SKB's get if their players make it in England? 

"We were heavily criticised because four Irish lads went to a club like Stevenage instead of staying here to play in the League of Ireland. But, to me, there was no club in this country that could offer them full-time football," says Alan Caffrey, coach at St Kevin's Boys, the quartet's alma mater.

"So it came to them taking a risk for two years and trying it, as they can always come home and play League of Ireland. And it was worth the risk."


http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/fourth-tier-comes-first-for-kevins-35650746.html

The whole system is clearly rotten in Ireland, all these schoolboy clubs are putting their own profit in front of these lads welfare and that needs to change.
On the other hand it is perfectly understandable why the lads themselves would want to go over to England, even if it is only to Stevenage. I would agree that they would be better off getting their leaving behind them but, in the majority of cases and from a footballing point of view, they would be better off in League 2.
There is a chip on the shoulder within the LOI that sees people look down on everything that isn't EPL and it is bizarre, it certainly comes across in that article too and it helps nobody. The journalist, for example, mocks the attendance figures of Stevenage who have averaged above Shamrock for the last 4/5 years. Fleetwood are from a small fishing town, in reality they are a tinpot club with millionaire's money anyway. We need to accept our faults in Ireland if we are going to fix them. LOI fans give out when the FAI jump on the bandwagon of Dundalk or whoever's success in Europe and then we turn around and look down at fully professional clubs that are often central to the local community because of such a run.
I understand that some clubs are doing more now, City and Shamrock Rovers in particular, but more has to be done to make the lads have a reason to stay.
 

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