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uibhfaillian 
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
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 Posted: 17 May 2024 at 11:15am |
 Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Lawrenson has said in the past that he doesn’t regret playing for Ireland because when he signed for Liverpool, Bob Paisley specifically told him he was signed on the basis of his performances for Ireland. So if Lawrenson hadn’t been playing for Ireland, he might not have had the career he achieved |
Houghton and Aldridge were at Oxford when Ireland capped them and after that they both got a move to Liverpool. It used to be beneficial to your career to have some Ireland caps. |
The Ireland caps certainly would have helped but Aldridge and Houghton's club form was already getting them plenty of attention, with Oxford doing well in their first two seasons in the top flight, and winning the League Cup (Houghton scoring the second goal in the 1986 final). Aldo was very much the Jamie Vardy of his day — a journeyman who came good at the right time well on in his career with a team that was on the up (he was almost 26 by the time he signed for Oxford).
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Yes I remember. I think the point is in recent years players who might be eligible for Ireland and are experienced and looking like they’re not at that stage going to get picked by England or Scotland in Houghton’s case have been turning down playing for Ireland. Kevin Nolan, Patrick Bamford and a few others. There doesn’t seem to be a knock on positive effect for these players in their careers to play international football for Ireland like there seemed to be back then.
That and Southgate and the English FA seem hell bent on preventing eligible players transferring to the Ireland international team even if they’re very unlikely to use them themselves. When we were getting the better of them in Jack’s era it obviously irked them that we were getting the better of them with a few English born players in the team.
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Seanachie
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 11 May 2016
Location: Paris
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Points: 356
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 12:10pm |
uibhfaillian wrote:
Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Lawrenson has said in the past that he doesn’t regret playing for Ireland because when he signed for Liverpool, Bob Paisley specifically told him he was signed on the basis of his performances for Ireland. So if Lawrenson hadn’t been playing for Ireland, he might not have had the career he achieved |
Houghton and Aldridge were at Oxford when Ireland capped them and after that they both got a move to Liverpool. It used to be beneficial to your career to have some Ireland caps. |
The Ireland caps certainly would have helped but Aldridge and Houghton's club form was already getting them plenty of attention, with Oxford doing well in their first two seasons in the top flight, and winning the League Cup (Houghton scoring the second goal in the 1986 final). Aldo was very much the Jamie Vardy of his day — a journeyman who came good at the right time well on in his career with a team that was on the up (he was almost 26 by the time he signed for Oxford).
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Yes I remember. I think the point is in recent years players who might be eligible for Ireland and are experienced and looking like they’re not at that stage going to get picked by England or Scotland in Houghton’s case have been turning down playing for Ireland. Kevin Nolan, Patrick Bamford and a few others. There doesn’t seem to be a knock on positive effect for these players in their careers to play international football for Ireland like there seemed to be back then.
That and Southgate and the English FA seem hell bent on preventing eligible players transferring to the Ireland international team even if they’re very unlikely to use them themselves. When we were getting the better of them in Jack’s era it obviously irked them that we were getting the better of them with a few English born players in the team. |
Yeah, the fact that an England cap is within closer reach these days, because of more international matches, makes players a bit more reticent to look elsewhere. A crazy number of great English players from the 1970s to the 1990s such as Le Tissier, Garry Mabbutt, Steve Perryman, Alan Sunderland won barely any caps or none at all because there weren't really enough matches to go around. Things are different now and players will be swayed too by agents who, with some reason, say you're worth more as an England international. This might change if we start qualifying for tournaments again but it won't happen overnight.
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Sham96
500 Club la la la
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Location: United States
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 12:13pm |
Trap junior wrote:
David Wagner now available
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There is no chance Wagner or any other soon to be out of work Championship manager is going to take the Ireland under the current idiots involved with recruitment. Not going to happen. Which makes a mockery of the FAI "leaks" of waiting on the English season to finish before recruiting a new manager. Just a continuation of spoofery. They are hoping somehow O'Shea works out in the next two friendlies. Most of us know there will be no improvement from the Swiss loss. A real mess.
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uibhfaillian
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 1:17pm |
uibhfaillian wrote:
Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Lawrenson has said in the past that he doesn’t regret playing for Ireland because when he signed for Liverpool, Bob Paisley specifically told him he was signed on the basis of his performances for Ireland. So if Lawrenson hadn’t been playing for Ireland, he might not have had the career he achieved |
Houghton and Aldridge were at Oxford when Ireland capped them and after that they both got a move to Liverpool. It used to be beneficial to your career to have some Ireland caps. |
The Ireland caps certainly would have helped but Aldridge and Houghton's club form was already getting them plenty of attention, with Oxford doing well in their first two seasons in the top flight, and winning the League Cup (Houghton scoring the second goal in the 1986 final). Aldo was very much the Jamie Vardy of his day — a journeyman who came good at the right time well on in his career with a team that was on the up (he was almost 26 by the time he signed for Oxford).
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Yes I remember. I think the point is in recent years players who might be eligible for Ireland and are experienced and looking like they’re not at that stage going to get picked by England or Scotland in Houghton’s case have been turning down playing for Ireland. Kevin Nolan, Patrick Bamford and a few others. There doesn’t seem to be a knock on positive effect for these players in their careers to play international football for Ireland like there seemed to be back then.
That and Southgate and the English FA seem hell bent on preventing eligible players transferring to the Ireland international team even if they’re very unlikely to use them themselves. When we were getting the better of them in Jack’s era it obviously irked them that we were getting the better of them with a few English born players in the team. |
Very obviously the case that more than ever being capped by England adds to an EPL players value. Jack Grealish would never have cost 100 million quid if he stayed with Ireland. He wouldn’t be at Man City either. He’s an extreme example, Rice an even more extreme example because he’s actually closer to worth the transfer fee he went for in relative terms.
Still, there’s others like Nolan, Bamford and Noble etc who don’t get any England caps or very few if any that like you say are probably being persuaded against declaring for Ireland by agents or by the English FA. They gave Bamford a token cap, he didn’t seem interested in playing for Ireland anyway but that well has run dry it’s the kids of immigrants coming here as opposed to the kids and grandkids of emigrants that left here years ago that we’ll get more from.
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Seanachie
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 11 May 2016
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 1:36pm |
uibhfaillian wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Lawrenson has said in the past that he doesn’t regret playing for Ireland because when he signed for Liverpool, Bob Paisley specifically told him he was signed on the basis of his performances for Ireland. So if Lawrenson hadn’t been playing for Ireland, he might not have had the career he achieved |
Houghton and Aldridge were at Oxford when Ireland capped them and after that they both got a move to Liverpool. It used to be beneficial to your career to have some Ireland caps. |
The Ireland caps certainly would have helped but Aldridge and Houghton's club form was already getting them plenty of attention, with Oxford doing well in their first two seasons in the top flight, and winning the League Cup (Houghton scoring the second goal in the 1986 final). Aldo was very much the Jamie Vardy of his day — a journeyman who came good at the right time well on in his career with a team that was on the up (he was almost 26 by the time he signed for Oxford).
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Yes I remember. I think the point is in recent years players who might be eligible for Ireland and are experienced and looking like they’re not at that stage going to get picked by England or Scotland in Houghton’s case have been turning down playing for Ireland. Kevin Nolan, Patrick Bamford and a few others. There doesn’t seem to be a knock on positive effect for these players in their careers to play international football for Ireland like there seemed to be back then.
That and Southgate and the English FA seem hell bent on preventing eligible players transferring to the Ireland international team even if they’re very unlikely to use them themselves. When we were getting the better of them in Jack’s era it obviously irked them that we were getting the better of them with a few English born players in the team. |
Very obviously the case that more than ever being capped by England adds to an EPL players value. Jack Grealish would never have cost 100 million quid if he stayed with Ireland. He wouldn’t be at Man City either. He’s an extreme example, Rice an even more extreme example because he’s actually closer to worth the transfer fee he went for in relative terms.
Still, there’s others like Nolan, Bamford and Noble etc who don’t get any England caps or very few if any that like you say are probably being persuaded against declaring for Ireland by agents or by the English FA. They gave Bamford a token cap, he didn’t seem interested in playing for Ireland anyway but that well has run dry it’s the kids of immigrants coming here as opposed to the kids and grandkids of emigrants that left here years ago that we’ll get more from. |
Bamford's connection to Ireland, though legitimate, was tenuous enough, AFAIK. His grandmother was born in Ireland but to an English family that didn't stay around too long. So he was always going to be even less bothered than Rice or Grealish. Mind you, Steve Heighway qualified for us solely due to being born in Dublin while his father was working on the construction of Busáras. He didn't have any family connection and was raised in England.
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uibhfaillian
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 12 Sep 2013
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 1:43pm |
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Bumford
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Claret Murph
Paul McGrath
Hmmm, Goodness, I must say
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 2:22pm |
uibhfaillian wrote:
Bumford |
Barndoor , which he kind of misses quite a lot .
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Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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Luis Amor Rodriguez
Liam Brady
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
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Posted: 17 May 2024 at 4:49pm |
Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
Seanachie wrote:
uibhfaillian wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Lawrenson has said in the past that he doesn’t regret playing for Ireland because when he signed for Liverpool, Bob Paisley specifically told him he was signed on the basis of his performances for Ireland. So if Lawrenson hadn’t been playing for Ireland, he might not have had the career he achieved |
Houghton and Aldridge were at Oxford when Ireland capped them and after that they both got a move to Liverpool. It used to be beneficial to your career to have some Ireland caps. |
The Ireland caps certainly would have helped but Aldridge and Houghton's club form was already getting them plenty of attention, with Oxford doing well in their first two seasons in the top flight, and winning the League Cup (Houghton scoring the second goal in the 1986 final). Aldo was very much the Jamie Vardy of his day — a journeyman who came good at the right time well on in his career with a team that was on the up (he was almost 26 by the time he signed for Oxford).
|
Yes I remember. I think the point is in recent years players who might be eligible for Ireland and are experienced and looking like they’re not at that stage going to get picked by England or Scotland in Houghton’s case have been turning down playing for Ireland. Kevin Nolan, Patrick Bamford and a few others. There doesn’t seem to be a knock on positive effect for these players in their careers to play international football for Ireland like there seemed to be back then.
That and Southgate and the English FA seem hell bent on preventing eligible players transferring to the Ireland international team even if they’re very unlikely to use them themselves. When we were getting the better of them in Jack’s era it obviously irked them that we were getting the better of them with a few English born players in the team. |
Very obviously the case that more than ever being capped by England adds to an EPL players value. Jack Grealish would never have cost 100 million quid if he stayed with Ireland. He wouldn’t be at Man City either. He’s an extreme example, Rice an even more extreme example because he’s actually closer to worth the transfer fee he went for in relative terms.
Still, there’s others like Nolan, Bamford and Noble etc who don’t get any England caps or very few if any that like you say are probably being persuaded against declaring for Ireland by agents or by the English FA. They gave Bamford a token cap, he didn’t seem interested in playing for Ireland anyway but that well has run dry it’s the kids of immigrants coming here as opposed to the kids and grandkids of emigrants that left here years ago that we’ll get more from. |
Bamford's connection to Ireland, though legitimate, was tenuous enough, AFAIK. His grandmother was born in Ireland but to an English family that didn't stay around too long. So he was always going to be even less bothered than Rice or Grealish. Mind you, Steve Heighway qualified for us solely due to being born in Dublin while his father was working on the construction of Busáras. He didn't have any family connection and was raised in England.
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Completely disagree. Proper integration of the diaspora players is the difference between qualifying regularly for tournaments and our current predicament.
- Grealish is where he is on merit. You don't get selected for a club like Man City and a manager like Guardiola unless you are producing the goods.
- Similarly, Rice is an absolute Rolls Royce of a player. Arguably, the most effective midfield player in the world right now. His inclusion probably explains an otherwise not vintage Arsenal being title-challengers this year. The closest player I've seen to Roy Keane in his pomp, without the temper.
Had we properly fed them through to the senior team, not to mention others, we'd be:
- qualifying regularly for tournaments, and - probably be dark horses like Wales in 2016 with peak Bale and Ramsey.
For the most part, the lads born and bred in ROI we can take for granted that they'll want to play for us.
As opposed to the omnishambles we've been in for some time now.
The disapora (and to a lesser extent the Ulster lads, Bradley etc) are the difference between: - your Italy 90s/USA 94s/Japan02s and - unprecedented loses to Armenia, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg etc. etc.
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TonyGawks
Ronnie Whelan
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Posted: 10 hours 7 minutes ago at 5:15pm |
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What has happened in last few days for John O'Shea to go from odds on to out to 5/1?
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Sham157
Moderator Group
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Posted: 10 hours 4 minutes ago at 5:18pm |
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Somebody stuck a fiver on Stephen Kenny
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