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roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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    Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by trapped trapped wrote:


The size of the organisation and the people at the top who run it.

That makes no sense. The FAI have multiples of the staff the GAA do.

You are drowning here.
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Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

youve been comparing the Presidents who has no managerial function in the GAA. Are you GF in disguise?

Christ. I'll type it slowly.

You made the statement, with no backup whatosever, that JD earns more than the CEO's of the IRFU and GAA. You have pointedly refused to back that up with any links.

I pointed out that if the Gah were paying their President 158k a year, they were highly unlikely to be paying their CEO less. 

Long and short of it, the supposedly corrupt FAI are far more transparent than the GAA and IRFU. 
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Originally posted by JimmyG JimmyG wrote:

I banned myself from this thread for a month and although I am technically breaching this ban I thought it might help everyone here to see a few comparative figures for the GAA and FAI

Year 2010

 

                             GAA                      FAI

Total revenue       €58m                      €39.3

Admin Cost          €8.12m [14%]        €8.95 [23%]



 
 
Thanks for the first turnover figures, is there anyway you can get the corresponding figures for 2000.
 
This would be a good starting point for a debate on weather Delaney has contributed to a massive increase in revenues or not.
 
As has been said the GAA figures includes all ticket sales from the All Ireland and All Ireland Leagues, so it kind of disorts the figures.
 
 
I know nothing :-)
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I have looked at your posts GF and you are a great man for asking questions which are phrased in a certain way to convey the impression that the unknown answers would lead to conclusions supporting your particular viewpoint.  If you have the answers to these questions please publish them and let us all draw our own conclusions.

As regards you specific query to me I do not have the comparative figures for 2000.  I would be surprised however if the comparative figures for both organizations do not show a huge increase in that 10/11 year period including huge increases in commercial and TV income.  Anyway, you can use figures to argue almost any position.  For instance if I wanted to argue that either the GAA or FAI was mismanaged in 2010 compared to 2009 I could cite the big drop in revenue experienced by both organizations as follows [I have added their respective explanation for the sake of clarity]

FAI

                                                          2010                                           2009 

Turnover                                       39,313,050                              50,015,254

Overall our turnover was €39.3m. As highlighted in last year’s annual report 2009 saw the Association generate a record turnover on the back of two high profile and commercially attractive home competitive fixtures with Italy and France. In particular the additional television income achieved in 2009 on the back of those games was not replicated in 2010. The tough economic times experienced in Ireland in 2010 combined with the lower number of home competitive matches also contributed greatly to this year on year decrease in turnover.

 

GAA

Turnover                                          58,015,244                       67,700,229

Despite the challenging economic conditions, the GAA announced revenues of €58m, down from €68m in 2009, which can, in the main, be attributed to a drop in revenue of €9m (from €13m down to €4m) from the rental of Croke Park to the FAI and the IRFU.

 

The reason I quoted revenue figures in my previous post was to give some objective measurement of the relative size of each organisation and how much they are spending on admin.  The point has been made that the GAA figures include gate receipts.  This is true and the figure is just over €25m.  I would assume that that the admin cost quoted also includes costs associated with all the matches for which gate receipts are included.  The FAI figures also include gate receipts although I have been unable to determine the exact amount from published material.

As another measure of relative size the GAA annual report for 2010 says it has 2,272 affiliated clubs in Ireland [32 counties I assume] plus another 343 abroad including Britain.  According to an unofficial website there are 707 soccer clubs in Ireland.  
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Originally posted by JimmyG JimmyG wrote:

I have looked at your posts GF and you are a great man for asking questions which are phrased in a certain way to convey the impression that the unknown answers would lead to conclusions supporting your particular viewpoint.  If you have the answers to these questions please publish them and let us all draw our own conclusions.

As regards you specific query to me I do not have the comparative figures for 2000.  I would be surprised however if the comparative figures for both organizations do not show a huge increase in that 10/11 year period including huge increases in commercial and TV income.  Anyway, you can use figures to argue almost any position.  For instance if I wanted to argue that either the GAA or FAI was mismanaged in 2010 compared to 2009 I could cite the big drop in revenue experienced by both organizations as follows [I have added their respective explanation for the sake of clarity]

FAI

                                                          2010                                           2009 

Turnover                                       39,313,050                              50,015,254

Overall our turnover was €39.3m. As highlighted in last year’s annual report 2009 saw the Association generate a record turnover on the back of two high profile and commercially attractive home competitive fixtures with Italy and France. In particular the additional television income achieved in 2009 on the back of those games was not replicated in 2010. The tough economic times experienced in Ireland in 2010 combined with the lower number of home competitive matches also contributed greatly to this year on year decrease in turnover.

 

GAA

Turnover                                          58,015,244                       67,700,229

Despite the challenging economic conditions, the GAA announced revenues of €58m, down from €68m in 2009, which can, in the main, be attributed to a drop in revenue of €9m (from €13m down to €4m) from the rental of Croke Park to the FAI and the IRFU.

 

The reason I quoted revenue figures in my previous post was to give some objective measurement of the relative size of each organisation and how much they are spending on admin.  The point has been made that the GAA figures include gate receipts.  This is true and the figure is just over €25m.  I would assume that that the admin cost quoted also includes costs associated with all the matches for which gate receipts are included.  The FAI figures also include gate receipts although I have been unable to determine the exact amount from published material.

As another measure of relative size the GAA annual report for 2010 says it has 2,272 affiliated clubs in Ireland [32 counties I assume] plus another 343 abroad including Britain.  According to an unofficial website there are 707 soccer clubs in Ireland.  

 
But you aren't comparing like with like. The GAA is highly centralised and runs all games and the merchandising. The FAI don't. What you need to compare is the turnover of all units - clubs and representitive sizes, which would be an impossible excercise.
 
There are far more professional administrators and Development officers involved in football than the GAA, so you shot yourself in the foot on that point.
 
There probably almost 707 clubs in Dublin, never mind the country. 500 applied for floodlight grants ffs. Although it is puzzling that the FAI don't have this statistic to hand.
 
 
If you think there are 343 GAA clubs overseas I have a bridge to sell you.
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Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

 
If you think there are 343 GAA clubs overseas I have a bridge to sell you.
 
Have a read of that...
 
 
Quote But you aren't comparing like with like. The GAA is highly centralised and runs all games and the merchandising.
 
The GAA itself get a tiny percentage of the sales from O'Neills merchandise. A hell of a lot less than the FAI would get from Umbro for international jersey sales.
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Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

[QUOTE=JimmyG]
 
But you aren't comparing like with like. The GAA is highly centralised and runs all games and the merchandising. The FAI don't. What you need to compare is the turnover of all units - clubs and representitive sizes, which would be an impossible excercise.

This is not so.  County Boards run County Championships and other local competitions at all levels.  Each club and county does its own merchandising and sponsorship deals.
 
There are far more professional administrators and Development officers involved in football than the GAA, so you shot yourself in the foot on that point.

Do you have any objective evidence to support this statement.
 
There probably almost 707 clubs in Dublin, never mind the country. 500 applied for floodlight grants ffs. Although it is puzzling that the FAI don't have this statistic to hand.

Lovely word probably - I do not know the fifure and I made it clear it was taken from an unofficial website.

If you think there are 343 GAA clubs overseas I have a bridge to sell you.
Here are the figures from the GAA annual report but I suppose you won't believe that either

an bhreatain

Londain 31

Hertfordshire 7

Warwickshire 17

Gloucestershire 5

Lanacashire 11

Yorkshire 8

Scotland 5

timpeall na cruinne

An Eoraip 51

Nua Eabhrach 41

Bord Meiriceá Thuaidh 77

Canada 15

An Astráil 51

An Áis 24

This thread is not about a competition between the GAA and FAI.  If it was we would have to start talking about stadia like Croke Park, Semple Stadium, Pairc ui Chaoimh, Fitzgerald Stadium etc or perhaps their debt to revenue ratio's.  The discussion was about relative size and the cost of administration and in particular the cost of the CEO.  Regardless of where it comes from the GAA has a considerably larger annual turnover than the FAI and its relative administrative costs are considerably less.  I do not have figures for the GAA Ard Stiurathoir's salary or the IRFU ceo but I think it is generally accepted they are considerably below that of JD.
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moving the stuff to here

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Good shout milla- has absolutely wrecked the delaney thread
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Originally posted by JimmyG JimmyG wrote:

I have looked at your posts GF and you are a great man for asking questions which are phrased in a certain way to convey the impression that the unknown answers would lead to conclusions supporting your particular viewpoint.  If you have the answers to these questions please publish them and let us all draw our own conclusions.

As regards you specific query to me I do not have the comparative figures for 2000.  I would be surprised however if the comparative figures for both organizations do not show a huge increase in that 10/11 year period including huge increases in commercial and TV income.  Anyway, you can use figures to argue almost any position.  For instance if I wanted to argue that either the GAA or FAI was mismanaged in 2010 compared to 2009 I could cite the big drop in revenue experienced by both organizations as follows [I have added their respective explanation for the sake of clarity]

FAI

                                                          2010                                           2009 

Turnover                                       39,313,050                              50,015,254

Overall our turnover was €39.3m. As highlighted in last year’s annual report 2009 saw the Association generate a record turnover on the back of two high profile and commercially attractive home competitive fixtures with Italy and France. In particular the additional television income achieved in 2009 on the back of those games was not replicated in 2010. The tough economic times experienced in Ireland in 2010 combined with the lower number of home competitive matches also contributed greatly to this year on year decrease in turnover.

 

GAA

Turnover                                          58,015,244                       67,700,229

Despite the challenging economic conditions, the GAA announced revenues of €58m, down from €68m in 2009, which can, in the main, be attributed to a drop in revenue of €9m (from €13m down to €4m) from the rental of Croke Park to the FAI and the IRFU.

 

The reason I quoted revenue figures in my previous post was to give some objective measurement of the relative size of each organisation and how much they are spending on admin.  The point has been made that the GAA figures include gate receipts.  This is true and the figure is just over €25m.  I would assume that that the admin cost quoted also includes costs associated with all the matches for which gate receipts are included.  The FAI figures also include gate receipts although I have been unable to determine the exact amount from published material.

As another measure of relative size the GAA annual report for 2010 says it has 2,272 affiliated clubs in Ireland [32 counties I assume] plus another 343 abroad including Britain.  According to an unofficial website there are 707 soccer clubs in Ireland.  

 
 
Ido not know the answers to the questions, but it is a basis IMO for judging the performance of the FAI.
 
I know for a fact that huge improvements have been made to the coaching structures and in the provision of facilities for junior and schoolboy clubs etc. This can not be denied but is conveniently ignored by many whos only interest is tickets for matches they want to go to.
 
What I really would like to know is how the FAI compares to the GAA and the IRFU in these areas, as they have also made great improvements.
 
Has the FAI done better or worse that the other sporting bodies - I honestly believe this is a valid question and anyone with a genuine interest in the game as against just supporting the national team would also like to know.
I know nothing :-)
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Couldn't agree more with you GF.  I would love to have the answers to all these questions.  Actually I think the FAI and the GAA and the IRFU could all probably learn from each other in certain ways as neither has a momopoly on right or wrong.  I personally have no axe to grind in this regard.  My contribution was in the context of an exchange of views about our esteemed CEO but it seems these comments were not considered relevant in that context and we were booted out to a seperate thread.  Probably time to close this thread.
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Maybe, no doubt Delaney earns more than probaly the other 2 put together.
 
At least we agree it would be great to see a comparison of the organisations in some of the areas we have pointed out and than the improvements in say the last 10 years, and see which organisation is doing best in terms of growth, provision of training facilities and coaching etc etc
 
 
Maybe GerK could get the Star to do a bit of research in this area.


Edited by greenforever - 18 Nov 2011 at 12:07pm
I know nothing :-)
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Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

Originally posted by trapped trapped wrote:


The size of the organisation and the people at the top who run it.

That makes no sense. The FAI have multiples of the staff the GAA do.

You are drowning here.
Nothing makes sense to you when you don't agree with it.
 
You only have to look around at every community in the country to compare the local GAA and soccer club. The GAA club will invariably have a couple of pitches of their own accompanied by a big clubhouse, bar among more facilities, whereas soccer players are lucky to have anywhere to get changed in and often rent facilities to train in etc. That is because more people are involved with GAA in each community and collectively build the community around it - i've seen this from playing both codes for years. You mightn't want to accept this but it's the truth.
 
The amount of soccer clubs is tiny when compared to GAA clubs. 57% of all matches attended in Ireland are GAA, compared to 16% for soccer. That difference in figures dwarves the difference in participation figures you gave earlier. There are far more people involved in running the GAA than the FAI, whether they are employed are voluntarily.
 
If i'm drowning here you're at the bottom of the ocean.
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The GAA's turnover for a domestic game is superb and they deserve great credit for that. They built the fourth biggest stadium in Europe without the help of another association and have paid it off in full. They may run an amateur sport but they run it professionally.
 
The GAA do not run the merchandising for all the GAA. They get a small cut for the use of their trademarked GAA logo but it's the county boards to run their own merchandise. Look at how come counties have reverted to Azzuri. If merchandise was centurally controlled you wouldn't have different counties going with different suppliers.
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Originally posted by trapped trapped wrote:

Originally posted by roverstillidie roverstillidie wrote:

Originally posted by trapped trapped wrote:


The size of the organisation and the people at the top who run it.

That makes no sense. The FAI have multiples of the staff the GAA do.

You are drowning here.
Nothing makes sense to you when you don't agree with it.
 
You only have to look around at every community in the country to compare the local GAA and soccer club. The GAA club will invariably have a couple of pitches of their own accompanied by a big clubhouse, bar among more facilities, whereas soccer players are lucky to have anywhere to get changed in and often rent facilities to train in etc. That is because more people are involved with GAA in each community and collectively build the community around it - i've seen this from playing both codes for years. You mightn't want to accept this but it's the truth.
 
The amount of soccer clubs is tiny when compared to GAA clubs. 57% of all matches attended in Ireland are GAA, compared to 16% for soccer. That difference in figures dwarves the difference in participation figures you gave earlier. There are far more people involved in running the GAA than the FAI, whether they are employed are voluntarily.
 
If i'm drowning here you're at the bottom of the ocean.
 
nothing to do with a discriminatory grant system over the decades favouring the "indigenous games"??


Edited by Saint Tom - 18 Nov 2011 at 2:25pm
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Boring aul topic but good article by Dan McDonnell of the Indo. You could also apply it to the LOI v FAI v EPL debate.

Quote

THE Catholic Church has suffered a fair bit of shame and embarrassment in the last couple of decades but, even in the darkest days, you wouldn't hear commentators speculating that it could be good news for Judaism or Protestantism or the Jedis or whatever you're having yourself.

It is curious, however, that in this supposedly sports-mad country, where the devotion of fans is frequently caked in religious language, there is a natural assumption that one sport's misfortune is immediately another's opportunity.

The beauty of timing placed this year's All-Ireland hurling final between Ireland's fateful World Cup double header with Sweden and Austria.

When Clare and Cork served up a classic, there was no shortage of experts queueing up to unflatteringly compare it to the frustration and lethargy of the loss to Sweden at the Aviva Stadium 48 hours earlier.

OVERPAID

In the RTE studio, Liam Sheedy could barely contain himself, sniffily drawing a comparison with the fare served up by the 'overpaid' footballers in the Swedish encounter.

This is a familiar theme, a boring old chestnut. On radio a few weeks back, in the midst of the understandable euphoria following the Dublin-Kerry thriller, Ray Silke saw fit to refer to the low-scoring Premier League fixtures in the preceding 24 hours as though this was somehow landing a jab.

It's a strange mindset. With the GAA continuing to sell out their marquee games and the hurling replay set to net the association a further €2.7m, there is a bizarre insecurity about the temptation to give other codes a dig in the ribs – and it's generally 'the soccer' – in the afterglow of a superbCroker afternoon.

What are they so worried about? The wages in football are obscene of course, but the sport is swimming in cash because of television revenue and that's because people the world all over want to watch the Premier League.

Hurling is still a minority pastime in large parts of Ireland. There are a few more bridges to cross before it conquers Bangkok.

In all seriousness, though, it is an absolute nonsense to theorise that the exploits of hurling's best practitioners could somehow have a knock-on effect for the football team in this supposed battle for hearts and minds.

We are given the same spiel when the rugby provinces deliver on a blue-chipHeineken Cup weekend.

It suggests that the empty seats at Lansdowne Road for soccer internationals, a product of bad pricing and an unattractive style of play, have been vacated by people who are now devoted to the sliotar or the oval ball.

That may be true in the corporate world, an area that seems to have an unhealthy number of lifelong rugby fans who discovered the sport in their early 30s, but it is simply not the case when it comes to the general areas of the ground.

There are plenty of disillusioned football fans out there who who could fill Lansdowne 10 times over if they were happy with the state of the national team. They were deeply frustrated by the Trapattoni era and chose to keep their money in their pockets.

The disaffected congregation extends from embattled League of Ireland followers to people who save their cash for trips to England. Take the Dublin Decider as an example, the glorified Celtic-Liverpool friendly which sold out in minutes.

Similarly, the launch of the Champions League group stages this week will show the lure of Messi, Ronaldo, Van Persie and Co is as strong as ever. It will dominate Tuesday and Wednesday nights, and keep pubs in business through the winter. The challenge for the FAI is to tap into the appetite that exists.

In participation terms, their sport is still the pacesetter, and the weight of national news coverage which accompanied Trapattoni's departure last week asserts that, ultimately, the Irish football team has the power to generate more discussion than any other sporting unit in this country, even if that chat manifests itself in the form of an underhanded swipe from the righteous.

What is it they say is the only thing worse than being talked about?

For the Abbotstown brains trust, the hope is that a new manager delivers in the short term, while they must prioritise speaking to the right people –Brian Kerr springs to mind – about concocting a coherent long-term strategy.

There will be occasional battles with their counterparts over elite players but that's about as far as the competition goes.

The success or otherwise of other sports is irrelevant to their next step. Certainly, a challenging time lies ahead, yet they can progress safe in the knowledge that the latent support is there.

Their priority has to be getting their own house in order. Put that right and they'll have no reason to worry about the neighbours.
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Fed up to death of this. Even the Sunday Game football lads are now competing against the Sunday Game hurling lads.

They're all different sports, get over it!
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