Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Het-field wrote: But only from a certain persuasion that chooses to see America’s hand in everything.

Het-field wrote: OohAah... wrote: Het-field wrote: But only from a certain persuasion that chooses to see America’s hand in everything.  Well I dont think its that. They have had a hand in Ukranian politics for atleast quite a while. 2004, 2014 and currently. That is nothing about having a persuasion. We can agree that We see them as an empire of sorts. So We have an empire of sorts that has been involved in Ukranian affairs. This isnt even getting into the weeks of finanical or possible military ops. And Russia has had a hand in Ukrainian politics. That is a legitimate issue too. Especially as that hand was a lot more prevalent. Is it not a coincidence that Putin first invaded Ukraine in 2014, months after a visible and tangible change in mindset by the population?

because they are out for their own ends for many many reasons and one is contril

Het-field wrote: OohAah... wrote: because they are out for their own ends for many many reasons and one is contril  And both empires are st the same thing  But not in this context. They may exhibit similar mindsets in different circumstances. But not here. Only one illegally and unilaterally invaded Ukraine, and it’s not America.

sorry we are veering here. We should stick to talking about interference in Ukraine pre invasion and sort that first. 

eireland wrote: Do you boys reckon Russia didn't cripple Ukraines energy infrastructure day 1 because they thought they'd walk it and take over? Ukraine's air defence was good when activated and even improved but with missile stocks dropping to low levels Russia are now hurting then bad in this regard. Crazy to think the US want's Ukraine to stop hitting refineries when they're getting hit hard themselves. Lucky it didn't happen during the winter.

eireland wrote: OohAah... wrote: eireland wrote: Do you boys reckon Russia didn't cripple Ukraines energy infrastructure day 1 because they thought they'd walk it and take over? Ukraine's air defence was good when activated and even improved but with missile stocks dropping to low levels Russia are now hurting then bad in this regard. Crazy to think the US want's Ukraine to stop hitting refineries when they're getting hit hard themselves. Lucky it didn't happen during the winter. I dont know to be honest. Putin did say He was only after the eastern part and that the attack on Kiev was to disable communications. I wouldnt know who to trust but thats actually how its turned out. I didnt know US wants Ukraine to stop hitting refineries. But there again I wouldnt necessarily trust them either.  The Fear factor of the Energy Crisis was big at the start of the war. And Then the gas pipelines got attacked. Still no one wants to know who did it in the Western World. We can draw your own conclusions of that. If Russia captured Kyiv there's no way they wouldn't lay claim to such a prized possession. They'd say it's now a Russian city.  The Americans don't want unstable oil prices in an election year so they Russia to be able to export and not use dwindled supplies for themselves only.

Putin had no interest in taking Kiev. It was basically a shot across the bow to get the yanks and Ukraine to the negotiation table, which did happen. Every single military expert has said this upon review of the events that the initial force of 40k troops was insignificant. If Putin was intent on taking Kiev along with Western Ukraine he would have mobilized over 1m troops with heavy machinery behind it. The initial army that was mobilized was less than 1% of Russia's military force. That tells its on story in itself. 

Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote: Putin had no interest in taking Kiev. It was basically a shot across the bow to get the yanks and Ukraine to the negotiation table, which did happen. Every single military expert has said this upon review of the events that the initial force of 40k troops was insignificant. If Putin was intent on taking Kiev along with Western Ukraine he would have mobilized over 1m troops with heavy machinery behind it. The initial army that was mobilized was less than 1% of Russia's military force. That tells its on story in itself.